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<DIV>This really strikes a chord with me – Bertrand wrote</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Times New Roman">”We (the people of the world) have the power
to frame description of situations and objectives in a way that helps solve
issues. If we do not do it consciously, we become all prisoners of the power of
words, hostages of the most radical among us and lose control of our collective
destiny. “</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Times New Roman"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Times New Roman">Perhaps a good thing to bear in mind for this
list for 2013! This caucus presents a great diversity of viewpoints, sometimes
seemingly opposite – and that is one of the great strengths of this group. Vive
la difference, and may we not just tolerate the different viewpoints here, but
accept that the diversity represented is our great potential source of
strength!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Times New Roman"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Times New Roman">Ian Peter</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV style="font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=bdelachapelle@gmail.com
href="mailto:bdelachapelle@gmail.com">Bertrand de La Chapelle</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, December 19, 2012 3:20 AM</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=avri@ella.com href="mailto:avri@ella.com">Avri
Doria</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Cc:</B> <A title=governance@lists.igcaucus.org
href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</A>
</DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [governance] Internetistan, or the Bit Boat... a new
approach to Internet governance!</DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></DIV>
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<DIV dir=ltr>Avri,
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I see your point. Let me rephrase somewhat to explain what I meant:</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>- the current meme is going like: "this is a Digital Cold War", and the
natural follow-up is: "Whose side are you on?" (remember <A
href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BU4H87kjl90">Matt Bianco's</A> song? :-),
forcing people into a sterile black-and-white alternative</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>- my formulation would be: "how can we prevent this from becoming a Digital
Cold War", and this leads to: "how do we manage commons"? and "how to handle
shared responsibilities".</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I believe this is more likely to lead to constructive solutions. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I know the human brain likes simple dichotomies. It has even been an
evolutionary survival competence. But tens of millions of dead people throughout
history show what it can lead to in complex societies when it gets out of
control. I consciously and voluntarily try not to fall in that trap in the case
of Internet governance. And now is a moment to be aware of this, as we assess
the outcome of WCIT and its consequences for future debates. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>We (the people of the world) have the power to frame description of
situations and objectives in a way that helps solve issues. If we do not do it
consciously, we become all prisoners of the power of words, hostages of the most
radical among us and lose control of our collective destiny. <BR></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>My two cents.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>B.</DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_extra><BR><BR>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>On Tue, Dec 18, 2012 at 4:25 PM, Avri Doria <SPAN
dir=ltr><<A href="mailto:avri@ella.com"
target=_blank>avri@ella.com</A>></SPAN> wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex"
class=gmail_quote>But, if it really is a digital cold war, saying that it
isn't, can be just as self defeating.<BR><BR>Let's analyze before deciding
which it is.<BR>
<DIV class=im><BR>Bertrand de La Chapelle <<A
href="mailto:bdelachapelle@gmail.com">bdelachapelle@gmail.com</A>>
wrote:<BR><BR></DIV>
<DIV class=im>>I anticipate a great journalistic attraction for the meme "a
Digital Cold<BR>>War".<BR>><BR>>It is an abusive oversimplification
and worse, it presents a big risk of a<BR>>self-fulfilling prophecy if
people begin to think in that framework. The<BR>>"us vs them" behavior on
both sides, the "with us or against us", the cyber<BR>>arms race, the fight
between radical approaches, both caricatured to the<BR>>extreme,
unfortunately prevent a more balanced, cautious, and
respectful<BR>>approach that enables joint management of the new commons,
rather than<BR>>attempts to carve out territories in
cyberspace.<BR>><BR>>Some thinking is needed to find better
formulations. And citizens'<BR>>interests in all regions need to be the
starting point. Civil society has a<BR>>responsibility in there. Let's
avoid being held hostage to the extreme<BR>>views from both
sides.<BR>><BR>>B.<BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>>On Tue, Dec
18, 2012 at 3:47 PM, Kettemann, Matthias (<BR>><A
href="mailto:matthias.kettemann@uni-graz.at">matthias.kettemann@uni-graz.at</A>)
<<A
href="mailto:matthias.kettemann@uni-graz.at">matthias.kettemann@uni-graz.at</A>>
wrote:<BR>><BR></DIV>>> Dear Parminder, ****<BR>>><BR>>>
** **<BR>
<DIV class=im>>><BR>>> The right of states to have no other state
interfere with their access to<BR>>> the Internet is, in my view, not
conditional upon an international treaty<BR>>> but rather, as I’ve
argued in the mail you quoted from, in the process of<BR>>>
crystallizing into a customary norm. Treaties can be evidence of such
a<BR>>> crystallization, but they are not necessary for the process. Not
signing a<BR>>> treaty than contains many different provisions cannot be
used as an<BR>>> argument against any one single norm’s customary
character. Further<BR>>> evidence, such as clear statements by states
evidencing opinio iuris, is<BR></DIV>>> needed.
****<BR>>><BR>>> ** **<BR>
<DIV class=im>>><BR>>> The dynamics in Dubai illustrate that we
are now at a point where two<BR>>> different conceptions of the
normative order applicable to the Internet<BR>>> clash. Simple
dichotomies (freedom vs. control, private sector-orientation<BR></DIV>>>
vs. sovereignity-orientation) are more misleading than helpful.
****<BR>>><BR>>> ** **<BR>
<DIV class=im>>><BR>>> The danger I see lies rather in what the
Economist termed a potential<BR>>> “digital Cold War”. History tells us
that the last Cold War didn’t lead to<BR>>> decades of cooperative
law-making on the international plane, but rather<BR></DIV>>> conflict,
divisions and standstill. ****<BR>>><BR>>> ** **<BR>
<DIV class=im>>><BR>>> Yet at the height of the Cold War leaders
agreed, within the framework of<BR>>> the CSCE, on the Helsinki Final
Act of 1975 which laid down essential<BR>>> commitments regarding
political and military cooperation and human rights<BR>>> issues,
including the Helsinki Decalogue, the “Declaration on [10]<BR>>>
Principles Guiding Relations between Participating States” (<BR></DIV>>>
<A href="http://www.osce.org/mc/39501?download=true"
target=_blank>http://www.osce.org/mc/39501?download=true</A>).
****<BR>>><BR>>> ** **<BR>
<DIV class=im>>><BR>>> So what do we need now: We need a Helsinki
Decalogue for the Internet that<BR>>> can guide relation between all
stakeholders in the Internet. If Russia and<BR>>> the US were able to
agree in 1975 on the prohibition of the use of force,<BR>>>
non-intervention, respect for human rights and fulfillment in good faith
of<BR>>> obligations under international law, they should be able to
agree, in near<BR>>> future, on Internet Governance principles
reflecting these international<BR></DIV>>> legal
principles.****<BR>>><BR>>> ** **<BR>
<DIV class=im>>><BR>>> The Declaration by the Committee of
Ministers on Internet governance<BR>>> principles (<A
href="https://wcd.coe.int/ViewDoc.jsp?id=1835773"
target=_blank>https://wcd.coe.int/ViewDoc.jsp?id=1835773</A>) provides a
first<BR>>> template; and the IRP’s 0 Rights and Principles (<A
href="http://irpcharter.org"
target=_blank>http://irpcharter.org</A>)<BR></DIV>>> exemplify a human
rights-oriented approach. ****<BR>>><BR>>> ** **<BR>
<DIV class=im>>><BR>>> It’s there that we should look, rather than
to feel sorry that Dubai<BR></DIV>>> didn’t work
out.****<BR>>><BR>>> ** **<BR>>><BR>>> Kind
regards****<BR>>><BR>>> Matthias****<BR>>><BR>>> **
**<BR>>><BR>>> --****<BR>>><BR>>> **
**<BR>>><BR>>> Dr Matthias C. Kettemann, LLM
(Harvard)****<BR>>><BR>>> Institute of International Law and
International Relations****<BR>>><BR>>> University of Graz,
Austria****<BR>>><BR>>> T | <A href="tel:%2B43%20316%20380%206711"
value="+433163806711">+43 316 380 6711</A> ****<BR>>><BR>>> E | <A
href="mailto:matthias.kettemann@uni-graz.at">matthias.kettemann@uni-graz.at</A>****<BR>>><BR>>>
Blog <<A href="http://internationallawandtheinternet.blogspot.com"
target=_blank>http://internationallawandtheinternet.blogspot.com</A>> |
Twitter<<A href="http://twitter.com/#%21/MCKettemann"
target=_blank>http://twitter.com/#%21/MCKettemann</A>>|<BR>>>
Facebook <<A href="http://www.facebook.com/matthias.kettemann"
target=_blank>http://www.facebook.com/matthias.kettemann</A>> |
Google+<<A href="https://plus.google.com/u/0/116310540881122884114/posts"
target=_blank>https://plus.google.com/u/0/116310540881122884114/posts</A>><BR>>>
****<BR>>><BR>>> ** **<BR>>><BR>>> **
**<BR>>><BR>>> *Von:* <A
href="mailto:governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org">governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org</A>
[mailto:<BR>>> <A
href="mailto:governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org">governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org</A>]
*Im Auftrag von *parminder<BR>>> *Gesendet:* Dienstag, 18. Dezember 2012
15:17<BR>>> *An:* <A
href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</A>;
Bertrand de la Chapelle<BR>>> *Betreff:* Re: [governance] Internetistan,
or the Bit Boat... a new<BR>>> approach to Internet
governance!****<BR>>><BR>>> **
**<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>> Dear Bertrand/
Others<BR>>><BR>>> ****<BR>>><BR>>> On Wednesday 12
December 2012 01:43 AM, <A
href="mailto:bdelachapelle@gmail.com">bdelachapelle@gmail.com</A>
wrote:****<BR>>><BR>>> Dear Matthias,****<BR>>><BR>>>
** **<BR>>><BR>>> I agree with your thesis.
****<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>> Which I understand, to quote
Matthias' email, is about****<BR>
<DIV class=im>>><BR>>> "...crystallization of the application of
the international customary law<BR>>> norm of non-interference to other
states' Internet access. Indeed, the<BR>>> stability and functionality
of the Internet can by now be clearly<BR>>> considered to lie in the
common interest. As such, it is protected by<BR>>> international law.
States that violate this common obligation engage their<BR></DIV>>>
international responsibility."****<BR>
<DIV class=im>>><BR>>> Now what have you all to say about the US
and its allies walking out of<BR>>> the WCIT on the point of refusing to
sign on preambular language that<BR>>> simply "recognize(s) the
right of access of Member States to international<BR>>>
telecommunication services".<BR>>><BR>>> This point above seems
central to all the discussions here on what is<BR>>> being called as 'a
new approach to Internet governance'.<BR>>><BR>>> Wonder, why the
US is able to get away with such monstrosities, and civil<BR>>> society
choses to look the other way when they happen. Nay, people have in<BR>>>
fact been defending US's position of not signing the above text on
this<BR>>> list and other CS forums..... One wonders what is
happening!!!<BR>>><BR>>>
parminder<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR></DIV>>>
****<BR>>><BR>>> ** **<BR>
<DIV
class="im HOEnZb">>><BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>>--<BR>>____________________<BR>>Bertrand
de La Chapelle<BR>>Internet & Jurisdiction Project Director,
International Diplomatic Academy (<BR>><A
href="http://www.internetjurisdiction.net"
target=_blank>www.internetjurisdiction.net</A>)<BR>>Member, ICANN Board of
Directors<BR>>Tel : <A href="tel:%2B33%20%280%296%2011%2088%2033%2032"
value="+33611883332">+33 (0)6 11 88 33 32</A><BR>><BR>>"Le plus beau
métier des hommes, c'est d'unir les hommes" Antoine de
Saint<BR>>Exupéry<BR>>("there is no greater mission for humans than
uniting humans")<BR>><BR></DIV>
<DIV class=HOEnZb>
<DIV
class=h5>>____________________________________________________________<BR>>You
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<DIV> </DIV>-- <BR>____________________<BR>Bertrand de La Chapelle
<DIV>Internet & Jurisdiction Project Director, International Diplomatic
Academy (<A href="http://www.internetjurisdiction.net"
target=_blank>www.internetjurisdiction.net</A>)</DIV>
<DIV>Member, ICANN Board of Directors <BR>Tel : +33 (0)6 11 88 33 32<BR><BR>"Le
plus beau métier des hommes, c'est d'unir les hommes" Antoine de Saint
Exupéry<BR>("there is no greater mission for humans than uniting humans")</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></DIV>
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