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Thanks for this. +1<br>
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2012/12/16 02:05 AM, Jean-Louis
FULLSACK wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:1794595643.66475.1355616317364.JavaMail.www@wwinf1e29"
type="cite">
<p>+ 1</p>
<p> </p>
<p>When I'm reading the mails on this list I'm wondering about the
actual status of a certain number of its correspondants/members
...</p>
<p>In "historic times", I mean dusring the WSIS process and more
specifically its second phase, we -the CS folks- have been
invaded by a batalion of tunesian "not really non-governemental
orgs" that happened to sabotage our work and debates. At present
there is just another brand of those "NR-ONG", namely those who
deny state sovereignty and multilateralism in international
governance. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>Best CS regards</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Jean-Louis Fullsack</p>
<p><br>
<br>
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</p>
<blockquote style="padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px;
border-left: #ff0000 2px solid;">> Message du 13/12/12 05:33<br>
> De : "parminder" <br>
> A : <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a><br>
> Copie à : <br>
> Objet : Re: [governance] Re: Telecom TV on Google and Taxes<br>
> <br>
>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=UTF-8">
<br>
> <span style="font-family: Verdana;">Rather shameful that
google paid 3 percent tax on its overseas profit!! It surely
leaves it with a lot of money to spend in lobbying and
advocacy efforts to keep global markets free for its
unlettered operations... Like organising campaigns against
ITU, German legislature, and so on. <br>
> <br>
> Would IGC write an open letter to Google that its tax
evasion policy is anti people, and it should pays its taxes
where it makes its profit. (Or is it that the IG civil society
does not go into such re-distributional questions ) It is
not rhetorical but a real question to the list, and its
coordinator. <br>
> <br>
> parminder <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> </span>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On Wednesday 12 December 2012 09:37
PM, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro wrote:<br>
></div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAJwbTiB9HaQQG0fg5F0Mx3oEiXw_=e+FPSXnFQ6TY7hKq5WYYg@mail.gmail.com">More
on Bloomberg: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-12-10/google-revenues-sheltered-in-no-tax-bermuda-soar-to-10-billion.html">http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-12-10/google-revenues-sheltered-in-no-tax-bermuda-soar-to-10-billion.html</a><br>
> <br>
>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Dec 13, 2012 at 4:48 AM,
Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro <span><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro@gmail.com"
target="_blank">salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0 0 0 .8ex;
border-left: 1px #ccc solid; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div><br>
></div>
<div>Somehow it feels that there is a targeted media
campaign out against the likes of Google and other mncs
- the timing of the release is almost impeccable with
the WCIT. </div>
<div><br>
></div>
<div>Source: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.telecomtv.com/comspace_newsDetail.aspx?n=49763&id=e9381817-0593-417a-8639-c4c53e2a2a10"
target="_blank">http://www.telecomtv.com/comspace_newsDetail.aspx?n=49763&id=e9381817-0593-417a-8639-c4c53e2a2a10</a></div>
<div><br>
></div>
<h1 style="padding: 0px; margin: 0px 0px 2px; font-size:
18pt; line-height: 28px; color: #2b2723; font-family:
'Lucida Sans Unicode','Lucida Grande CY','Helvetica
CY';"><span style="padding: 0px; margin: 0px;">Google
“can make money without doing evil” (as it evades $2bn
in taxes)</span></h1>
<div style="padding: 0px 0px 10px; margin: 0px; font-size:
12px; font-family: 'Lucida Sans Unicode','Lucida Grande
CY','Helvetica CY'; word-wrap: break-word;">Posted By <a
moz-do-not-send="true" style="padding: 0px; margin:
0px; color: #cd9900;"
href="http://www.telecomtv.com/go/?ct=9&id=e9381817-0593-417a-8639-c4c53e2a2a10"
target="_blank">TelecomTV One</a> , <span
style="padding: 0px; margin: 0px;">12 December 2012</span> | <a
moz-do-not-send="true" style="padding: 0px; margin:
0px; color: #cd9900;"
href="http://www.telecomtv.com/comspace_newsDetail.aspx?n=49763&id=e9381817-0593-417a-8639-c4c53e2a2a10#comments"
target="_blank"><span style="padding: 0px; margin:
0px;">1</span> Comments</a> | <span style="padding:
0px; margin: 0px; font-size: 11px; font-family:
Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; white-space: nowrap;"><img
moz-do-not-send="true"
src="http://www.telecomtv.com/images/starOn.gif"> <img
moz-do-not-send="true"
src="http://www.telecomtv.com/images/starOn.gif"> <img
moz-do-not-send="true"
src="http://www.telecomtv.com/images/starOn.gif"> <span
style="padding: 0px; margin: 0px;">(0)</span></span> <br
style="padding: 0px; margin: 0px;">
<span style="padding: 0px; margin: 0px;">Tags:</span> <em
style="padding: 0px; margin: 0px;"><a
moz-do-not-send="true" style="padding: 0px; margin:
0px; color: #cd9900;"
href="http://www.telecomtv.com/results.aspx?tag=122&tagname=Google"
target="_blank">Google</a></em> <em style="padding:
0px; margin: 0px;"><a moz-do-not-send="true"
style="padding: 0px; margin: 0px; color: #cd9900;"
href="http://www.telecomtv.com/results.aspx?tag=6972&tagname=corporate"
target="_blank">corporate</a></em> <em
style="padding: 0px; margin: 0px;"><a
moz-do-not-send="true" style="padding: 0px; margin:
0px; color: #cd9900;"
href="http://www.telecomtv.com/results.aspx?tag=434&tagname=tax"
target="_blank">tax</a></em> <em style="padding:
0px; margin: 0px;"><a moz-do-not-send="true"
style="padding: 0px; margin: 0px; color: #cd9900;"
href="http://www.telecomtv.com/results.aspx?tag=365&tagname=Finance"
target="_blank">Finance</a></em></div>
<div style="padding: 0px; margin: 0px; font-size: 13.5px;
color: #666666; line-height: 19px; font-family: 'Lucida
Sans Unicode','Lucida Grande CY','Helvetica CY';">
<p style="padding: 0px; margin: 0px;"><span
style="padding: 0px; margin: 0px;">As the net closes
around the multinationals that avoid paying
corporation taxes, Google is accused of saving $2bn
by routing income through a “Double Irish Dutch
Sandwich”, paying tax of just 3.2 per cent on its
overseas profits. Guy Daniels reports.</span></p>
</div>
<div style="padding: 10px 0px 0px; margin: 0px; font-size:
12.5px; color: #666666; line-height: 18px; font-family:
'Lucida Sans Unicode','Lucida Grande CY','Helvetica
CY';">
<p style="padding: 0px; margin: 0px;"> </p>
<p style="padding: 0px; margin: 0px;">Three questions.
One; where do you stand on the subject of tax
avoidance? We at TelecomTV believe that individuals
and corporations have a duty to pay their fair share
of tax. By fair, we mean whatever respective
governments rule to be the legal requirement (after
all, in most countries, we voted the politicians in to
office). By all means try and mitigate the amount of
tax you have to pay, using whatever accepted
mechanisms are available. But avoidance? That just
means somebody else (with far less access to expensive
and clever advisors) has to contribute to your share
as well.</p>
<p style="padding: 0px; margin: 0px;"> </p>
<p style="padding: 0px; margin: 0px;">Second question:
how do you define evil? The Oxford English Dictionary
defines evil as “profoundly immoral and wicked” or
“something which is harmful or undesirable”. In my
book, that means tax avoidance is evil, simple as
that.</p>
<p style="padding: 0px; margin: 0px;"> </p>
<p style="padding: 0px; margin: 0px;">Third and final
question: Is Google evil? If you believe that avoiding
tax is wrong (especially through aggressive and
mind-boggling complicated avoidance schemes) and if
you believe that depriving society of tax revenues is
wrong (and so reducing the level of available State
support for the most needy) and could be described as
an evil act, then surely you must conclude that Google
is acting in an evil manner.</p>
<p style="padding: 0px; margin: 0px;"> </p>
<p style="padding: 0px; margin: 0px;">An investigative
report by <a moz-do-not-send="true" style="padding:
0px; margin: 0px; color: #39302c;"
href="http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-12-10/google-revenues-sheltered-in-no-tax-bermuda-soar-to-10-billion.html"
target="_blank">Bloomberg</a> has discovered that
Google avoided about $2 billion in worldwide income
taxes in 2011 by shifting $9.8 billion in revenues
into a Bermuda shell company – almost double its total
from three years ago. The information was disclosed in
a November filing by a Google subsidiary in the
Netherlands, which was discovered by reporters from
Bloomberg.</p>
<p style="padding: 0px; margin: 0px;"> </p>
<p style="padding: 0px; margin: 0px;">It appears that
Google legally routed profits from overseas
subsidiaries into Bermuda, which doesn’t have a
corporate income tax, thereby enabling it to cut its
overall tax rate almost in half. Bloomberg says the
amount moved to Bermuda is equivalent to about 80 per
cent of Google’s total pretax profit in 2011.</p>
<p style="padding: 0px; margin: 0px;"> </p>
<p style="padding: 0px; margin: 0px;">Tax evasion and
avoidance costs the European Union a staggering €1
trillion a year. That’s worth dwelling on for a moment
longer…. €1 trillion. No wonder politicians are now
acting to try and prevent this financial loss and
branding such acts as scandalous and immoral.</p>
<p style="padding: 0px; margin: 0px;"> </p>
<p style="padding: 0px; margin: 0px;">Bloomberg has a
good quote from a UK-based tax accountant, which
pretty much sums up the feeling in Europe at the
moment. According to Richard Murphy of Tax Research:</p>
<p style="padding: 0px; margin: 0px;"> </p>
<p style="padding: 0px; margin: 0px 0px 0px 40px;"><cite
style="padding: 0px; margin: 0px;">“The tax strategy
of Google and other multinationals is a deep
embarrassment to governments around Europe. The
political awareness now being created in the UK, and
to a lesser degree elsewhere in Europe, is: It’s us
or them. People understand that if Google doesn’t
pay, somebody else has to pay or services get cut.”</cite></p>
<p style="padding: 0px; margin: 0px;"> </p>
<p style="padding: 0px; margin: 0px;">Just look what
happened to Starbucks. When the public discovered the
US coffee giant paid zero taxes in the UK (yes,
absolutely nothing at all), it started to boycott the
chain.</p>
<div style="padding: 0px; margin: 15px 0px 10px;
text-align: center;">
<div style="padding: 0px; margin: 0px; color: #808080;
font-size: 10px;">Advertisement</div>
</div>
As a result, Starbucks was forced to “volunteer” to pay
taxes…
<p style="padding: 0px; margin: 0px;"> </p>
<p style="padding: 0px; margin: 0px;"> </p>
<p style="padding: 0px; margin: 0px;">The UK is Google’s
second-biggest market, responsible for about 11 per
cent of its sales. Of the $4 billion it turned over
last year, it paid UK corporation tax of less than $10
million. Bloomberg says Google avoids tax by using an
Irish subsidiary to collects revenues from ads sold in
the UK, which then pays royalties to another Irish
subsidiary whose legal residence is in Bermuda.
Payments are then sent to yet another subsidiary in
the Netherlands (with no employees, note) before
finally reaching the tax haven of Bermuda.</p>
<p style="padding: 0px; margin: 0px;"> </p>
<p style="padding: 0px; margin: 0px;">Sounds pretty
‘evil’ to me. And if so, then that’s against the
internet company’s guiding principles. Stated clearly
on the “Ten Things We Know to be True” page on <a
moz-do-not-send="true" style="padding: 0px; margin:
0px; color: #39302c;"
href="http://www.google.com/about/company/philosophy/"
target="_blank">Google</a>’s website is the
following:</p>
<p style="padding: 0px; margin: 0px;"> </p>
<p style="padding: 0px; margin: 0px 0px 0px 40px;"><cite
style="padding: 0px; margin: 0px;">“You can make
money without doing evil.”</cite></p>
<p style="padding: 0px; margin: 0px;"> </p>
<p style="padding: 0px; margin: 0px;">I’m sorry, Google,
but I don’t see how avoiding tax is anything but evil.
Of course you – and all companies – have a duty to
shareholders to maximise profits. But there are rules.
Some of these are merely ethical, whilst some are
legal. There is no indication or suggestion that
Google has acted illegally, but there is every
suggestion that it has acted unethically.</p>
<p style="padding: 0px; margin: 0px;"> </p>
<p style="padding: 0px; margin: 0px;">And who said you
can’t have ‘ethical companies’? Of course you can. I
don’t buy the ‘extreme capitalist’ viewpoint that
corporations will only act in self-interest and never
“do the right thing” or pay their fair share. If their
customers start to boycott their services, then
they’ll change. It happened with the sudden emergence
of all the so-called ‘corporate responsibility’
positions that all featured heavily in annual reports.
I don’t see why it can’t happen with fair tax
positions.</p>
<p style="padding: 0px; margin: 0px;"> </p>
<p style="padding: 0px; margin: 0px;">Other ICT
companies reported in the media to be using this
complicated tax evasion (sorry lawyers, of course I
mean ‘mitigation’…) structure include Apple, Facebook,
Microsoft and Oracle. Unfortunately, Google – and all
the others, who no doubt will soon be named and shamed
– will continue their sharp practices until they are
forced to make a change. If governments can’t do that
through the legal process, then it’s up to customers
to vote with their feet and walk away from Google
services. As Richard Murphy said, consumers are
beginning to get the message that it’s “us or them”,
and we’re already being squeezed by the many austerity
measures that are in effect to drag us out of
recession.</p>
<p style="padding: 0px; margin: 0px;"> </p>
<p style="padding: 0px; margin: 0px;">Come on Google,
time to step up to the plate and show some leadership.
Pay your fair share. And then the rest of the ICT
industry can do likewise. Or else remove that fatuous
and out-dated “don’t do evil” slogan from your website
once and for all.</p>
<p style="padding: 0px; margin: 0px;"> </p>
<p style="padding: 0px; margin: 0px;"><span
style="padding: 0px; margin: 0px; text-decoration:
underline;">Further reading: </span>The <a
moz-do-not-send="true" style="padding: 0px; margin:
0px; color: #39302c;"
href="http://www.pearse-trust.ie/blog/bid/86105/US-Companies-Their-Use-Of-The-Double-Irish-Dutch-Sandwich"
target="_blank">Pearse Trust</a> blog has a detailed
explanation of the so-called “Double Irish Dutch
Sandwich” tax scheme. Please don’t try and implement
it.</p>
<p style="padding: 0px; margin: 0px;"> </p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
> <br clear="all">
<div><br>
></div>
-- <br>
>
<div>Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala</div>
<div>P.O. Box 17862</div>
<div>Suva</div>
<div>Fiji</div>
<div><br>
></div>
<div>Twitter: @SalanietaT</div>
<div><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro">Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro</a></div>
<div>Tel: +679 3544828</div>
<div>Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851</div>
<div><br>
></div>
<div> </div>
<div><span style="color: #222222; font-family:
arial,sans-serif;"><span style="line-height: 16px;"><br>
> </span></span></div>
<br>
></blockquote>
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