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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On Thursday 13 December 2012 02:25 PM,
Adam Peake wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAFabd1JAx-fB0WCkgcMbxPh4U29o=KjK0h1vCs166dQfeJ+PRQ@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite"><snip>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Well not really as taxes are national. </div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
Even when the business activities are global? Not really, Adam. And
since a developing country quote will perhaps hardly suffice, here
is one from a EU document<br>
<meta http-equiv="CONTENT-TYPE" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<blockquote>
<p style="margin-bottom: 0cm">“E-commerce is, by its nature, a
truly global process and no tax jurisdiction, acting
in isolation, can resolve all the issues it raises. ... The
successful administration and
application of taxes will to a great extent depend on, inter
alia, achieving an international
consensus...” </p>
<br>
</blockquote>
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</style>For corporate income taxes too, OECD has a model treaty, which
most OECD countries follow. <br>
<br>
So, you see, we need to address an appropriate international level/
forum for the google tax avoidance problem we are facing. <br>
<br>
It surprises me no end how when the issue is of interest to the most
powerful countries and businesses, global controls and norms are
sought - in trade, IP, and even free expression (fronting for free
digital trade)...... and in the case of economic and social issues
that concern the marginalised most, even when the obvious levers of
doing anything are global, we are pushed to national jurisdictions
--- mostly knowing well that in the globally networked world,
national jurisdictions, especially of the developing countries, have
little policy power left. This is unfair. This is what developing
countries and those who purport to speak for the most marginalised
must resist in these global spaces.<br>
<br>
parminder <br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAFabd1JAx-fB0WCkgcMbxPh4U29o=KjK0h1vCs166dQfeJ+PRQ@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div> So I would recommend we draft a letter and send to
respective ICT ministries, treasury and appropriate MPs (or
equivalent.) And to the countries such as Ireland,
Luxembourg, etc favored by companies like Google, Amazon eyc.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<div class="im">
<blockquote type="cite">
<div> to google would be just posturing.</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
</div>
You means that they would not pay heed to civil society's
voice/ statement on this, and not bother to respond? If
nothing else, that will be interesting to note, given the
numerous close compacts with civil society that google has
worked up in these last few months on many global IG issues.<span
class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><br>
<br>
</font></span></div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>No. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>(disclosure, GLOCOM hosts a Google Policy Fellow)</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Adam</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"><span class="HOEnZb"><font
color="#888888"> parminder <br>
</font></span>
<div>
<div class="h5">
<blockquote type="cite">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Adam</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Dec 13, 2012 at
1:40 PM, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro <span
dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro@gmail.com"
target="_blank">salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0
0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex"><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div>On Thu, Dec 13, 2012 at 5:33 PM,
parminder <span dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:parminder@itforchange.net"
target="_blank">parminder@itforchange.net</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px
#ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"> <br>
<font face="Verdana">Rather shameful
that google paid 3 percent tax on its
overseas profit!! It surely leaves it
with a lot of money to spend in
lobbying and advocacy efforts to keep
global markets free for its unlettered
operations... Like organising
campaigns against ITU, German
legislature, and so on. <br>
<br>
Would IGC write an open letter to
Google that its tax evasion policy is
anti people, and it should pays its
taxes where it makes its profit. (Or
is it that the IG civil society does
not go into such re-distributional
questions ) It is not rhetorical but
a real question to the list, and its
coordinator. <br>
</font></div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<div>What does the list think? </div>
<div>+1 if you think the IGC should write a
letter to Google</div>
<div>-1 if the IGC should not write a letter
to Google</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>As always the IGC decides </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px
#ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<div>
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"><font
face="Verdana"><span><font
color="#888888"> <br>
parminder <br>
<br>
<br>
</font></span></font>
<div>
<div>
<div>On Wednesday 12 December 2012
09:37 PM, Salanieta T.
Tamanikaiwaimaro wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">More on
Bloomberg: <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-12-10/google-revenues-sheltered-in-no-tax-bermuda-soar-to-10-billion.html"
target="_blank">http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-12-10/google-revenues-sheltered-in-no-tax-bermuda-soar-to-10-billion.html</a><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Thu,
Dec 13, 2012 at 4:48 AM,
Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro
<span dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro@gmail.com"
target="_blank">salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote
class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Somehow it feels that
there is a targeted media
campaign out against the
likes of Google and other
mncs - the timing of the
release is almost
impeccable with the WCIT. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Source: <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.telecomtv.com/comspace_newsDetail.aspx?n=49763&id=e9381817-0593-417a-8639-c4c53e2a2a10"
target="_blank">http://www.telecomtv.com/comspace_newsDetail.aspx?n=49763&id=e9381817-0593-417a-8639-c4c53e2a2a10</a></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<h1><span
style="padding:0px;margin:0px">Google
“can make money without
doing evil” (as it
evades $2bn in taxes)</span></h1>
<div>Posted By <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.telecomtv.com/go/?ct=9&id=e9381817-0593-417a-8639-c4c53e2a2a10"
style="padding:0px;margin:0px;color:rgb(205,153,0)" target="_blank">TelecomTV
One</a> , <span
style="padding:0px;margin:0px">12
December 2012</span> | <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.telecomtv.com/comspace_newsDetail.aspx?n=49763&id=e9381817-0593-417a-8639-c4c53e2a2a10#comments"
style="padding:0px;margin:0px;color:rgb(205,153,0)" target="_blank"><span
style="padding:0px;margin:0px">1</span> Comments</a> | <span
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<span
style="padding:0px;margin:0px">Tags:</span> <i
style="padding:0px;margin:0px"><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.telecomtv.com/results.aspx?tag=122&tagname=Google"
style="padding:0px;margin:0px;color:rgb(205,153,0)" target="_blank">Google</a></i> <i
style="padding:0px;margin:0px"><a moz-do-not-send="true"
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href="http://www.telecomtv.com/results.aspx?tag=434&tagname=tax"
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style="padding:0px;margin:0px;color:rgb(205,153,0)" target="_blank">Finance</a></i></div>
<div>
<p
style="padding:0px;margin:0px">
<span
style="padding:0px;margin:0px">As
the net closes around
the multinationals
that avoid paying
corporation taxes,
Google is accused of
saving $2bn by routing
income through a
“Double Irish Dutch
Sandwich”, paying tax
of just 3.2 per cent
on its overseas
profits. Guy Daniels
reports.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
style="padding:0px;margin:0px">
</p>
<p
style="padding:0px;margin:0px">Three
questions. One; where do
you stand on the subject
of tax avoidance? We at
TelecomTV believe that
individuals and
corporations have a duty
to pay their fair share
of tax. By fair, we mean
whatever respective
governments rule to be
the legal requirement
(after all, in most
countries, we voted the
politicians in to
office). By all means
try and mitigate the
amount of tax you have
to pay, using whatever
accepted mechanisms are
available. But
avoidance? That just
means somebody else
(with far less access to
expensive and clever
advisors) has to
contribute to your share
as well.</p>
<p
style="padding:0px;margin:0px"> </p>
<p
style="padding:0px;margin:0px">Second
question: how do you
define evil? The Oxford
English Dictionary
defines evil as
“profoundly immoral and
wicked” or “something
which is harmful or
undesirable”. In my
book, that means tax
avoidance is evil,
simple as that.</p>
<p
style="padding:0px;margin:0px"> </p>
<p
style="padding:0px;margin:0px">Third
and final question: Is
Google evil? If you
believe that avoiding
tax is wrong (especially
through aggressive and
mind-boggling
complicated avoidance
schemes) and if you
believe that depriving
society of tax revenues
is wrong (and so
reducing the level of
available State support
for the most needy) and
could be described as an
evil act, then surely
you must conclude that
Google is acting in an
evil manner.</p>
<p
style="padding:0px;margin:0px"> </p>
<p
style="padding:0px;margin:0px">An
investigative report by <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-12-10/google-revenues-sheltered-in-no-tax-bermuda-soar-to-10-billion.html"
style="padding:0px;margin:0px;color:rgb(57,48,44)" target="_blank">Bloomberg</a> has
discovered that Google
avoided about $2 billion
in worldwide income
taxes in 2011 by
shifting $9.8 billion in
revenues into a Bermuda
shell company – almost
double its total from
three years ago. The
information was
disclosed in a November
filing by a Google
subsidiary in the
Netherlands, which was
discovered by reporters
from Bloomberg.</p>
<p
style="padding:0px;margin:0px"> </p>
<p
style="padding:0px;margin:0px">It
appears that Google
legally routed profits
from overseas
subsidiaries into
Bermuda, which doesn’t
have a corporate income
tax, thereby enabling it
to cut its overall tax
rate almost in half.
Bloomberg says the
amount moved to Bermuda
is equivalent to about
80 per cent of Google’s
total pretax profit in
2011.</p>
<p
style="padding:0px;margin:0px"> </p>
<p
style="padding:0px;margin:0px">Tax
evasion and avoidance
costs the European Union
a staggering €1 trillion
a year. That’s worth
dwelling on for a moment
longer…. €1 trillion. No
wonder politicians are
now acting to try and
prevent this financial
loss and branding such
acts as scandalous and
immoral.</p>
<p
style="padding:0px;margin:0px"> </p>
<p
style="padding:0px;margin:0px">Bloomberg
has a good quote from a
UK-based tax accountant,
which pretty much sums
up the feeling in Europe
at the moment. According
to Richard Murphy of Tax
Research:</p>
<p
style="padding:0px;margin:0px"> </p>
<p
style="padding:0px;margin:0px
0px 0px 40px"><cite
style="padding:0px;margin:0px">“The
tax strategy of Google
and other
multinationals is a
deep embarrassment to
governments around
Europe. The political
awareness now being
created in the UK, and
to a lesser degree
elsewhere in Europe,
is: It’s us or them.
People understand that
if Google doesn’t pay,
somebody else has to
pay or services get
cut.”</cite></p>
<p
style="padding:0px;margin:0px"> </p>
<p
style="padding:0px;margin:0px">Just
look what happened to
Starbucks. When the
public discovered the US
coffee giant paid zero
taxes in the UK (yes,
absolutely nothing at
all), it started to
boycott the chain.</p>
<div
style="padding:0px;margin:15px
0px
10px;text-align:center">
<div
style="padding:0px;margin:0px;color:rgb(128,128,128);font-size:10px">Advertisement</div>
</div>
As a result, Starbucks was
forced to “volunteer” to
pay taxes…
<p
style="padding:0px;margin:0px">
</p>
<p
style="padding:0px;margin:0px"> </p>
<p
style="padding:0px;margin:0px">The
UK is Google’s
second-biggest market,
responsible for about 11
per cent of its sales.
Of the $4 billion it
turned over last year,
it paid UK corporation
tax of less than $10
million. Bloomberg says
Google avoids tax by
using an Irish
subsidiary to collects
revenues from ads sold
in the UK, which then
pays royalties to
another Irish subsidiary
whose legal residence is
in Bermuda. Payments are
then sent to yet another
subsidiary in the
Netherlands (with no
employees, note) before
finally reaching the tax
haven of Bermuda.</p>
<p
style="padding:0px;margin:0px"> </p>
<p
style="padding:0px;margin:0px">Sounds
pretty ‘evil’ to me. And
if so, then that’s
against the internet
company’s guiding
principles. Stated
clearly on the “Ten
Things We Know to be
True” page on <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.google.com/about/company/philosophy/"
style="padding:0px;margin:0px;color:rgb(57,48,44)"
target="_blank">Google</a>’s
website is the
following:</p>
<p
style="padding:0px;margin:0px"> </p>
<p
style="padding:0px;margin:0px
0px 0px 40px"><cite
style="padding:0px;margin:0px">“You
can make money without
doing evil.”</cite></p>
<p
style="padding:0px;margin:0px"> </p>
<p
style="padding:0px;margin:0px">
I’m sorry, Google, but I
don’t see how avoiding
tax is anything but
evil. Of course you –
and all companies – have
a duty to shareholders
to maximise profits. But
there are rules. Some of
these are merely
ethical, whilst some are
legal. There is no
indication or suggestion
that Google has acted
illegally, but there is
every suggestion that it
has acted unethically.</p>
<p
style="padding:0px;margin:0px"> </p>
<p
style="padding:0px;margin:0px">And
who said you can’t have
‘ethical companies’? Of
course you can. I don’t
buy the ‘extreme
capitalist’ viewpoint
that corporations will
only act in
self-interest and never
“do the right thing” or
pay their fair share. If
their customers start to
boycott their services,
then they’ll change. It
happened with the sudden
emergence of all the
so-called ‘corporate
responsibility’
positions that all
featured heavily in
annual reports. I don’t
see why it can’t happen
with fair tax positions.</p>
<p
style="padding:0px;margin:0px"> </p>
<p
style="padding:0px;margin:0px">Other
ICT companies reported
in the media to be using
this complicated tax
evasion (sorry lawyers,
of course I mean
‘mitigation’…) structure
include Apple, Facebook,
Microsoft and Oracle.
Unfortunately, Google –
and all the others, who
no doubt will soon be
named and shamed – will
continue their sharp
practices until they are
forced to make a change.
If governments can’t do
that through the legal
process, then it’s up to
customers to vote with
their feet and walk away
from Google services. As
Richard Murphy said,
consumers are beginning
to get the message that
it’s “us or them”, and
we’re already being
squeezed by the many
austerity measures that
are in effect to drag us
out of recession.</p>
<p
style="padding:0px;margin:0px"> </p>
<p
style="padding:0px;margin:0px">Come
on Google, time to step
up to the plate and show
some leadership. Pay
your fair share. And
then the rest of the ICT
industry can do
likewise. Or else remove
that fatuous and
out-dated “don’t do
evil” slogan from your
website once and for
all.</p>
<p
style="padding:0px;margin:0px"> </p>
<p
style="padding:0px;margin:0px"><u
style="padding:0px;margin:0px">Further reading: </u>The <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.pearse-trust.ie/blog/bid/86105/US-Companies-Their-Use-Of-The-Double-Irish-Dutch-Sandwich"
style="padding:0px;margin:0px;color:rgb(57,48,44)" target="_blank">Pearse
Trust</a> blog has a
detailed explanation of
the so-called “Double
Irish Dutch Sandwich”
tax scheme. Please don’t
try and implement it.</p>
<p
style="padding:0px;margin:0px"> </p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<br clear="all">
<div><br>
</div>
-- <br>
<div>Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro
aka Sala</div>
<div>P.O. Box 17862</div>
<div>Suva</div>
<div>Fiji</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Twitter: @SalanietaT</div>
<div>Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro</div>
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</div>
<div> </div>
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style="line-height:16px"><br>
</span></font></div>
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
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<br>
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<br clear="all">
<div><br>
</div>
-- <br>
<div>Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala</div>
<div>P.O. Box 17862</div>
<div>Suva</div>
<div>Fiji</div>
<div><br>
</div>
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