-1<div><br></div><div>write to politicians. to google would be just posturing.</div><div><br></div><div>Adam</div><div><br></div><div><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Dec 13, 2012 at 1:40 PM, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro@gmail.com" target="_blank">salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div class="im">On Thu, Dec 13, 2012 at 5:33 PM, parminder <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:parminder@itforchange.net" target="_blank">parminder@itforchange.net</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<br>
<font face="Verdana">Rather shameful that google paid 3 percent tax
on its overseas profit!! It surely leaves it with a lot of money
to spend in lobbying and advocacy efforts to keep global markets
free for its unlettered operations... Like organising campaigns
against ITU, German legislature, and so on. <br>
<br>
Would IGC write an open letter to Google that its tax evasion
policy is anti people, and it should pays its taxes where it makes
its profit. (Or is it that the IG civil society does not go into
such re-distributional questions ) It is not rhetorical but a
real question to the list, and its coordinator. <br></font></div></blockquote><div><br></div></div><div>What does the list think? </div><div>+1 if you think the IGC should write a letter to Google</div><div>-1 if the IGC should not write a letter to Google</div>
<div><br></div><div>As always the IGC decides </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div class="h5"><div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"><font face="Verdana"><span><font color="#888888">
<br>
parminder <br>
<br>
<br>
</font></span></font><div><div>
<div>On Wednesday 12 December 2012 09:37 PM,
Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">More on Bloomberg: <a href="http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-12-10/google-revenues-sheltered-in-no-tax-bermuda-soar-to-10-billion.html" target="_blank">http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-12-10/google-revenues-sheltered-in-no-tax-bermuda-soar-to-10-billion.html</a><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Dec 13, 2012 at 4:48 AM,
Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro@gmail.com" target="_blank">salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Somehow it feels that there is a targeted media campaign
out against the likes of Google and other mncs - the timing
of the release is almost impeccable with the WCIT. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Source: <a href="http://www.telecomtv.com/comspace_newsDetail.aspx?n=49763&id=e9381817-0593-417a-8639-c4c53e2a2a10" target="_blank">http://www.telecomtv.com/comspace_newsDetail.aspx?n=49763&id=e9381817-0593-417a-8639-c4c53e2a2a10</a></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<h1><span style="padding:0px;margin:0px">Google “can make money
without doing evil” (as it evades $2bn in taxes)</span></h1>
<div>Posted By <a href="http://www.telecomtv.com/go/?ct=9&id=e9381817-0593-417a-8639-c4c53e2a2a10" style="padding:0px;margin:0px;color:rgb(205,153,0)" target="_blank">TelecomTV One</a> , <span style="padding:0px;margin:0px">12 December 2012</span> | <a href="http://www.telecomtv.com/comspace_newsDetail.aspx?n=49763&id=e9381817-0593-417a-8639-c4c53e2a2a10#comments" style="padding:0px;margin:0px;color:rgb(205,153,0)" target="_blank"><span style="padding:0px;margin:0px">1</span> Comments</a> | <span style="padding:0px;margin:0px;font-size:11px;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;white-space:nowrap"><img title="0 people rated this an
average of 3/5" style="padding:0px;margin:0px;border:0px"> <img title="0 people rated this an
average of 3/5" style="padding:0px;margin:0px;border:0px"> <img title="0 people rated this an
average of 3/5" style="padding:0px;margin:0px;border:0px"> <span style="padding:0px;margin:0px">(0)</span></span> <br style="padding:0px;margin:0px">
<span style="padding:0px;margin:0px">Tags:</span> <i style="padding:0px;margin:0px"><a href="http://www.telecomtv.com/results.aspx?tag=122&tagname=Google" style="padding:0px;margin:0px;color:rgb(205,153,0)" target="_blank">Google</a></i> <i style="padding:0px;margin:0px"><a href="http://www.telecomtv.com/results.aspx?tag=6972&tagname=corporate" style="padding:0px;margin:0px;color:rgb(205,153,0)" target="_blank">corporate</a></i> <i style="padding:0px;margin:0px"><a href="http://www.telecomtv.com/results.aspx?tag=434&tagname=tax" style="padding:0px;margin:0px;color:rgb(205,153,0)" target="_blank">tax</a></i> <i style="padding:0px;margin:0px"><a href="http://www.telecomtv.com/results.aspx?tag=365&tagname=Finance" style="padding:0px;margin:0px;color:rgb(205,153,0)" target="_blank">Finance</a></i></div>
<div>
<p style="padding:0px;margin:0px">
<span style="padding:0px;margin:0px">As the net closes
around the multinationals that avoid paying corporation
taxes, Google is accused of saving $2bn by routing
income through a “Double Irish Dutch Sandwich”, paying
tax of just 3.2 per cent on its overseas profits. Guy
Daniels reports.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style="padding:0px;margin:0px">
</p>
<p style="padding:0px;margin:0px">Three questions. One;
where do you stand on the subject of tax avoidance? We at
TelecomTV believe that individuals and corporations have a
duty to pay their fair share of tax. By fair, we mean
whatever respective governments rule to be the legal
requirement (after all, in most countries, we voted the
politicians in to office). By all means try and mitigate
the amount of tax you have to pay, using whatever accepted
mechanisms are available. But avoidance? That just means
somebody else (with far less access to expensive and
clever advisors) has to contribute to your share as well.</p>
<p style="padding:0px;margin:0px"> </p>
<p style="padding:0px;margin:0px">Second question: how do
you define evil? The Oxford English Dictionary defines
evil as “profoundly immoral and wicked” or “something
which is harmful or undesirable”. In my book, that means
tax avoidance is evil, simple as that.</p>
<p style="padding:0px;margin:0px"> </p>
<p style="padding:0px;margin:0px">Third and final question:
Is Google evil? If you believe that avoiding tax is wrong
(especially through aggressive and mind-boggling
complicated avoidance schemes) and if you believe that
depriving society of tax revenues is wrong (and so
reducing the level of available State support for the most
needy) and could be described as an evil act, then surely
you must conclude that Google is acting in an evil manner.</p>
<p style="padding:0px;margin:0px"> </p>
<p style="padding:0px;margin:0px">An investigative report
by <a href="http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-12-10/google-revenues-sheltered-in-no-tax-bermuda-soar-to-10-billion.html" style="padding:0px;margin:0px;color:rgb(57,48,44)" target="_blank">Bloomberg</a> has discovered that Google
avoided about $2 billion in worldwide income taxes in 2011
by shifting $9.8 billion in revenues into a Bermuda shell
company – almost double its total from three years ago.
The information was disclosed in a November filing by a
Google subsidiary in the Netherlands, which was discovered
by reporters from Bloomberg.</p>
<p style="padding:0px;margin:0px"> </p>
<p style="padding:0px;margin:0px">It appears that Google
legally routed profits from overseas subsidiaries into
Bermuda, which doesn’t have a corporate income tax,
thereby enabling it to cut its overall tax rate almost in
half. Bloomberg says the amount moved to Bermuda is
equivalent to about 80 per cent of Google’s total pretax
profit in 2011.</p>
<p style="padding:0px;margin:0px"> </p>
<p style="padding:0px;margin:0px">Tax evasion and avoidance
costs the European Union a staggering €1 trillion a year.
That’s worth dwelling on for a moment longer…. €1
trillion. No wonder politicians are now acting to try and
prevent this financial loss and branding such acts as
scandalous and immoral.</p>
<p style="padding:0px;margin:0px"> </p>
<p style="padding:0px;margin:0px">Bloomberg has a good quote
from a UK-based tax accountant, which pretty much sums up
the feeling in Europe at the moment. According to Richard
Murphy of Tax Research:</p>
<p style="padding:0px;margin:0px"> </p>
<p style="padding:0px;margin:0px 0px 0px 40px"><cite style="padding:0px;margin:0px">“The tax strategy of
Google and other multinationals is a deep embarrassment
to governments around Europe. The political awareness
now being created in the UK, and to a lesser degree
elsewhere in Europe, is: It’s us or them. People
understand that if Google doesn’t pay, somebody else has
to pay or services get cut.”</cite></p>
<p style="padding:0px;margin:0px"> </p>
<p style="padding:0px;margin:0px">Just look what happened to
Starbucks. When the public discovered the US coffee giant
paid zero taxes in the UK (yes, absolutely nothing at
all), it started to boycott the chain.</p>
<div style="padding:0px;margin:15px 0px 10px;text-align:center">
<div style="padding:0px;margin:0px;color:rgb(128,128,128);font-size:10px">Advertisement</div>
</div>
As a result, Starbucks was forced to “volunteer” to pay
taxes…
<p style="padding:0px;margin:0px">
</p>
<p style="padding:0px;margin:0px"> </p>
<p style="padding:0px;margin:0px">The UK is Google’s
second-biggest market, responsible for about 11 per cent
of its sales. Of the $4 billion it turned over last year,
it paid UK corporation tax of less than $10 million.
Bloomberg says Google avoids tax by using an Irish
subsidiary to collects revenues from ads sold in the UK,
which then pays royalties to another Irish subsidiary
whose legal residence is in Bermuda. Payments are then
sent to yet another subsidiary in the Netherlands (with no
employees, note) before finally reaching the tax haven of
Bermuda.</p>
<p style="padding:0px;margin:0px"> </p>
<p style="padding:0px;margin:0px">Sounds pretty ‘evil’ to
me. And if so, then that’s against the internet company’s
guiding principles. Stated clearly on the “Ten Things We
Know to be True” page on <a href="http://www.google.com/about/company/philosophy/" style="padding:0px;margin:0px;color:rgb(57,48,44)" target="_blank">Google</a>’s website is the following:</p>
<p style="padding:0px;margin:0px"> </p>
<p style="padding:0px;margin:0px 0px 0px 40px"><cite style="padding:0px;margin:0px">“You can make money
without doing evil.”</cite></p>
<p style="padding:0px;margin:0px"> </p>
<p style="padding:0px;margin:0px">
I’m sorry, Google, but I don’t see how avoiding tax is
anything but evil. Of course you – and all companies –
have a duty to shareholders to maximise profits. But there
are rules. Some of these are merely ethical, whilst some
are legal. There is no indication or suggestion that
Google has acted illegally, but there is every suggestion
that it has acted unethically.</p>
<p style="padding:0px;margin:0px"> </p>
<p style="padding:0px;margin:0px">And who said you can’t
have ‘ethical companies’? Of course you can. I don’t buy
the ‘extreme capitalist’ viewpoint that corporations will
only act in self-interest and never “do the right thing”
or pay their fair share. If their customers start to
boycott their services, then they’ll change. It happened
with the sudden emergence of all the so-called ‘corporate
responsibility’ positions that all featured heavily in
annual reports. I don’t see why it can’t happen with fair
tax positions.</p>
<p style="padding:0px;margin:0px"> </p>
<p style="padding:0px;margin:0px">Other ICT companies
reported in the media to be using this complicated tax
evasion (sorry lawyers, of course I mean ‘mitigation’…)
structure include Apple, Facebook, Microsoft and Oracle.
Unfortunately, Google – and all the others, who no doubt
will soon be named and shamed – will continue their sharp
practices until they are forced to make a change. If
governments can’t do that through the legal process, then
it’s up to customers to vote with their feet and walk away
from Google services. As Richard Murphy said, consumers
are beginning to get the message that it’s “us or them”,
and we’re already being squeezed by the many austerity
measures that are in effect to drag us out of recession.</p>
<p style="padding:0px;margin:0px"> </p>
<p style="padding:0px;margin:0px">Come on Google, time to
step up to the plate and show some leadership. Pay your
fair share. And then the rest of the ICT industry can do
likewise. Or else remove that fatuous and out-dated “don’t
do evil” slogan from your website once and for all.</p>
<p style="padding:0px;margin:0px"> </p>
<p style="padding:0px;margin:0px"><u style="padding:0px;margin:0px">Further reading: </u>The <a href="http://www.pearse-trust.ie/blog/bid/86105/US-Companies-Their-Use-Of-The-Double-Irish-Dutch-Sandwich" style="padding:0px;margin:0px;color:rgb(57,48,44)" target="_blank">Pearse Trust</a> blog has a detailed
explanation of the so-called “Double Irish Dutch Sandwich”
tax scheme. Please don’t try and implement it.</p>
<p style="padding:0px;margin:0px"> </p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<br clear="all">
<div><br>
</div>
-- <br>
<div>Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala</div>
<div>P.O. Box 17862</div>
<div>Suva</div>
<div>Fiji</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Twitter: @SalanietaT</div>
<div>Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro</div>
<div>Tel: <a href="tel:%2B679%203544828" value="+6793544828" target="_blank">+679 3544828</a></div>
<div>Fiji Cell: <a href="tel:%2B679%20998%202851" value="+6799982851" target="_blank">+679 998 2851</a></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div> </div>
<div><font color="#222222" face="arial, sans-serif"><span style="line-height:16px"><br>
</span></font></div>
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
</div></div></div>
<br></div></div>____________________________________________________________<br>
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:<br>
<a href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org" target="_blank">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a><br>
To be removed from the list, visit:<br>
<a href="http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing" target="_blank">http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing</a><br>
<br>
For all other list information and functions, see:<br>
<a href="http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance" target="_blank">http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance</a><br>
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:<br>
<a href="http://www.igcaucus.org/" target="_blank">http://www.igcaucus.org/</a><br>
<br>
Translate this email: <a href="http://translate.google.com/translate_t" target="_blank">http://translate.google.com/translate_t</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5"><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div>Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala</div><div>P.O. Box 17862</div><div>Suva</div><div>Fiji</div><div><br></div><div>
Twitter: @SalanietaT</div><div>Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro</div>
<div>Tel: <a href="tel:%2B679%203544828" value="+6793544828" target="_blank">+679 3544828</a></div><div>Fiji Cell: <a href="tel:%2B679%20998%202851" value="+6799982851" target="_blank">+679 998 2851</a></div><div><br></div>
<div> </div><div><font color="#222222" face="arial, sans-serif"><span style="line-height:16px"><br></span></font></div><br>
</div></div><br>____________________________________________________________<br>
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:<br>
<a href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a><br>
To be removed from the list, visit:<br>
<a href="http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing" target="_blank">http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing</a><br>
<br>
For all other list information and functions, see:<br>
<a href="http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance" target="_blank">http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance</a><br>
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:<br>
<a href="http://www.igcaucus.org/" target="_blank">http://www.igcaucus.org/</a><br>
<br>
Translate this email: <a href="http://translate.google.com/translate_t" target="_blank">http://translate.google.com/translate_t</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div>