<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Dec 13, 2012 at 5:25 PM, parminder <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:parminder@itforchange.net" target="_blank">parminder@itforchange.net</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">

  
    
  
  <div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
    <br>
    <div>On Wednesday 12 December 2012 09:24 PM,
      Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"><snip>
      <div class="im"><div class="gmail_quote">
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>If we continue with the example that Parminder raised in
          relation to addressing IPR violations where the "subject" in
          this case the "content" is in "transit"-  this is why
          countries around the world at least as far as IPRs have been
          pushing harmonisation of their laws. </div>
      </div>
    </div></blockquote>
    <br>
    Sala, <br>
    Harmonisation of laws on IPR, which serves powerful interests, but
    not on other areas - like tax accruals (see your own google tax
    evasion posting), global net neutrality, consumer protection vis a
    vis global digital companies and so on...<br></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Hi Parminder - I am aware of the dynamics and was not disagreeing with the points you raised. Even with IPRs, precedence has been set by countries who are pushing an open and free internet to move towards "unspeakable :(" things like DNS filtering and digital rights management - the fear now is that once you start - people keep pushing the boundaries, this is systemic and human nature. This is why people fight for a free and open internet.</div>
<div><br></div><div>One of the challenges however is the polarisation between some commercially driven segments and governments over the taxation issues but will not get into that. To discuss harmonisation is not the solution in my view as my assessment as there is no way that parties will come together too much is at stake for them and it is in the billions of revenue and sadly for most people this is what makes the world go round.</div>
<div><br></div><div>What we would be better off doing is a thorough assessment of all the layers and pointing out the dangers that highlight regulatory trends globally and also point out threats to openess and why it is in the world's interests that we continue to have an open and free internet but at the same time fulfil our core responsible citizens as good citizens or global citizens or netizens but some would argue that this is utopia and a suburb of Absurdistan.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Even beyond the WCIT, stakeholders need to reflect on the "bigger picture" - meaning both civil society, private sector and the public sector - multistakeholder has to transcend getting people of diverse compositions into the same room but recognising and respecting the diverse roles that each plays so that there is real harmonisation and not a legislated one.</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
    <br>
    And this is what global Internet related public policy making is all
    about, from which so many of us rebound instinctively ... <br>
    <br>
    India's CIRP proposal described its intent as follows<br>
    <br>
    <blockquote>The intent behind proposing a multilateral and
      multi­stakeholder  mechanism is not to "control the Internet" or
      allow Governments to have the last word in regulating the
      Internet,  but to make sure that the Internet is governed not
      unilaterally, but in an open, democratic, inclusive and 
      participatory manner, with the participation of all stakeholders,
      so as to evolve <i><b>universally acceptable, and  globally
          harmonized policies in important areas </b></i>and pave the
      way for a credible, constantly evolving, stable and 
      well­functioning Internet that plays its due role in improving the
      quality of peoples' lives everywhere. (emphasis added)<br>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    The other way of global harmonisation, as US and OECD wants, is for
    these powerful countries to make policies and then arm twist others
    to join in.... <br>
    <br>
    Civil society will need to take a view on what kind of 'global
    harmonisation' do they want. What is your view?<br>
    <br>
    Unfortunately, till now most of the global civil society have
    generally sided with the powerful in the above regard. <br><span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888">
    <br>
    <br>
    parminder <br></font></span><div><div class="h5">
    <br>
    <blockquote type="cite">
      <div class="gmail_quote">
        <div> There are massive implications on openness etc.</div>
        <div><br>
          Sala </div>
        <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
          <div bgcolor="white" link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="EN-US">
            <div>
              <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
              <div>
                <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">
                      <a href="mailto:governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org" target="_blank">governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org</a>
                      [mailto:<a href="mailto:governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org" target="_blank">governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org</a>]
                      <b>On Behalf Of </b>parminder<br>
                      <b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, December 12, 2012 4:08 PM<br>
                      <b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org" target="_blank">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a></span></p>
                  <div>
                    <div><br>
                      <b>Subject:</b> Re: [governance] Internetistan, or
                      the Bit Boat... a new approach to Internet
                      governance!</div>
                  </div>
                </div>
              </div>
              <div>
                <div>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal">On Wednesday 12 December 2012
                      07:24 PM, Michael Kende wrote:</p>
                  </div>
                  <blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
                    <p class="MsoNormal">Hello Bertrand and Nick,</p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"> <snip_</p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal">The question then is whether
                      this principle of non-tampering with transit
                      traffic holds for traffic that may be stored in
                      the country, even if it was filtered along with
                      other international content before being viewed by
                      citizens of the country where it was hosted.  </p>
                  </blockquote>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><br>
                    Michael<br>
                    <br>
                    You may know that third party cargo in transit is
                    being impounded in OECD countries for IP violation
                    when the stuff is made on one country and headed for
                    another, and has nothing to do with the impounding
                    jurisdiction. see for instance,
                    <a href="http://keionline.org/blogs/2009/02/03/intervention-by-brazil-at-wto-general-council-on-seizure-of-500-kilos-of-generic-medicines-by-dutch-customs-aut" target="_blank">
http://keionline.org/blogs/2009/02/03/intervention-by-brazil-at-wto-general-council-on-seizure-of-500-kilos-of-generic-medicines-by-dutch-customs-aut</a><br>
                    <br>
                    There have been other cases as well. I understand
                    'border measures' envisaged under ACTA also enables
                    such in transit seizures of third party goods.<br>
                    <br>
                    parminder <br>
                    <br>
                    <br>
                    <br>
                    <br>
                    <br>
                    <br>
                  </p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal">Thanks</p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal">Michael</p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
                      <a href="mailto:governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org" target="_blank">governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org</a>
                      [<a href="mailto:governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org" target="_blank">mailto:governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org</a>]
                      <b>On Behalf Of </b>Bertrand de La Chapelle<br>
                      <b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, December 11, 2012 6:11 PM<br>
                      <b>To:</b> Nick Ashton-Hart<br>
                      <b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org" target="_blank">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a>;
                      Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch; Jovan Kurbalija;
                      McTim<br>
                      <b>Subject:</b> Re: [governance] Internetistan, or
                      the Bit Boat... a new approach to Internet
                      governance!</span></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal">Dear Nick, </p>
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                  </div>
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal">Just a brief comment on the
                      issue of "transit traffic". This is an interesting
                      component to explore. As I have often said, I
                      believe that Egypt acted in reference to an
                      implicit emerging international principle of "<b>non-tampering
                        with transit traffic</b>" when it blocked access
                      to the Internet during the Arab Spring but did not
                      impact the transit traffic serving the easter
                      coast of Africa. </p>
                  </div>
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                  </div>
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal">Discussing this in more detail
                      would indeed be useful and could probably be part
                      of an international/global regime. </p>
                  </div>
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                  </div>
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal">Best</p>
                  </div>
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                  </div>
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal">Bertrand</p>
                  </div>
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                  </div>
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"> </p>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal">On Sat, Dec 8, 2012 at 12:27
                        PM, Nick Ashton-Hart <<a href="mailto:nashton@ccianet.org" target="_blank">nashton@ccianet.org</a>>
                        wrote:</p>
                      <div>
                        <div>
                          <p class="MsoNormal">Funny, I have been
                            thinking of the Law of the Sea for a few
                            weeks as an interesting construct for the
                            legal protection of the open flow of data.</p>
                        </div>
                        <div>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                        </div>
                        <div>
                          <p class="MsoNormal">It is true that there's a
                            built environment to the Internet - but in
                            maritime law ships are also physical and
                            registered with a state. However, the space
                            they travel through, beyond the territorial
                            waters limit, is open sea and by definition
                            not owned by anyone.</p>
                        </div>
                        <div>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                        </div>
                        <div>
                          <p class="MsoNormal">If we used this construct
                            to protect the flow of international data,
                            that might be a workable metaphor. The Law
                            of the Sea embodied in UNCLOS is, after all,
                            largely simply a distillation of
                            internationally-understood principles about
                            maritime law that go back to the Roman
                            period. </p>
                        </div>
                        <div>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                        </div>
                        <div>
                          <p class="MsoNormal">We could do much worse
                            than an international understanding that
                            data, when transiting any country between a
                            source and destination in third countries,
                            was legally not actually 'in' the territory
                            or subject to the laws of the state it was
                            transiting, but subject only to an
                            international regime. <br>
                            <br>
                            (Bertrand: these ideas are what I was
                            speaking of when I told you at Baku I had an
                            idea for your jurisdiction project that
                            might have potential).</p>
                        </div>
                        <div>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                        </div>
                        <div>
                          <p class="MsoNormal">FWIW: For those who are
                            about to remind me, I am aware that the USG
                            has yet to ratify UNCLOS. It is clear that
                            the current Administration is very much in
                            favour of doing so, however, as are many
                            members of the legislative branch).</p>
                          <div>
                            <p class="MsoNormal">-- </p>
                          </div>
                          <div>
                            <p class="MsoNormal">Regards,</p>
                          </div>
                          <div>
                            <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                          </div>
                          <div>
                            <p class="MsoNormal">Nick Ashton-Hart</p>
                          </div>
                          <div>
                            <p class="MsoNormal">Geneva Representative</p>
                          </div>
                          <div>
                            <p class="MsoNormal">Computer &
                              Communications Industry Assocation (CCIA)</p>
                          </div>
                          <div>
                            <p class="MsoNormal">Tel: <a href="tel:%2B41%20%2822%29%20534%2099%2045" target="_blank">
                                +41 (22) 534 99 45</a></p>
                          </div>
                          <div>
                            <p class="MsoNormal">Fax: : <a href="tel:%2B41%20%2822%29%20594-85-44" target="_blank">
                                +41 (22) 594-85-44</a></p>
                          </div>
                          <div>
                            <p class="MsoNormal">Mobile: <a href="tel:%2B41%2079%20595%205468" target="_blank">
                                +41 79 595 5468</a> </p>
                          </div>
                          <p class="MsoNormal">USA DID: <a href="tel:%2B1%20%28202%29%20640-5430" target="_blank">
                              +1 (202) 640-5430</a></p>
                          <div>
                            <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                          </div>
                          <div>
                            <p class="MsoNormal"><b>Need to meet with
                                me? Schedule the time that suits us both
                                here: <a href="http://meetme.so/nashton" target="_blank">http://meetme.so/nashton</a></b></p>
                          </div>
                          <div>
                            <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                          </div>
                          <div>
                            <p class="MsoNormal">Sent from my one of my
                              handheld thingies, please excuse
                              linguistic mangling.</p>
                          </div>
                        </div>
                        <div>
                          <div>
                            <div>
                              <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
                                On 7 Dec 2012, at 16:23, "Dr. Alejandro
                                Pisanty Baruch" <<a href="mailto:apisan@unam.mx" target="_blank">apisan@unam.mx</a>>
                                wrote:</p>
                            </div>
                            <blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
                              <div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span>Jovan,
                                    </span></p>
                                  <div>
                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
                                  </div>
                                  <div>
                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span>thanks
                                        for doing a pretty innovative
                                        thing here: discussing ideas.
                                        Further, bringing a fresh
                                        approach and actual expertise. </span></p>
                                  </div>
                                  <div>
                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
                                  </div>
                                  <div>
                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span>My
                                        long-standing concern for
                                        analogies between Internet
                                        governance and the laws of the
                                        sea is that the Internet is much
                                        more a built environment than
                                        the sea (not that the sea is all
                                        natural and in fixed form
                                        forever, immune to our
                                        contamination and our
                                        imagintion.) </span></p>
                                  </div>
                                  <div>
                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
                                  </div>
                                  <div>
                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span>So
                                        Internet governance refers not
                                        only to rules etc. to live on
                                        the existing Internet, but also
                                        has to be useful as guidance in
                                        its expansion and development.
                                        To abuse your analogy, it's not
                                        only about shipping, fishing,
                                        and mining, but also about how
                                        to actually make the oceans of
                                        tomorrow. </span></p>
                                  </div>
                                  <div>
                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
                                  </div>
                                  <div>
                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span>That
                                        brings you to points like: you
                                        can use Ostromian theory to
                                        understand the tragedy of the
                                        commons in fisheries; but can
                                        you extend it to Internet
                                        governance? What are the
                                        limitations? Can you address
                                        concerns from liberals to
                                        socialists in a new framework
                                        without actually changing the
                                        salinity or wanting to reverse
                                        the flow of the Humboldt
                                        current? </span></p>
                                  </div>
                                  <div>
                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
                                  </div>
                                  <div>
                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span>Any
                                        thoughts?</span></p>
                                  </div>
                                  <div>
                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
                                  </div>
                                  <div>
                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span>Yours,</span></p>
                                  </div>
                                  <div>
                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
                                  </div>
                                  <div>
                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span>Alejandro
                                        Pisanty</span></p>
                                    <div>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
                                      <div>
                                        <div>
                                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span>   </span></p>
                                        </div>
                                        <div>
                                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span>! !! !!! !!!!</span></p>
                                        </div>
                                        <div>
                                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span>NEW PHONE NUMBER - NUEVO NÚMERO DE TELÉFONO</span></p>
                                        </div>
                                        <p><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> </span></p>
                                        <p><span><a href="tel:%2B52-1-5541444475" target="_blank">+52-1-5541444475</a>
                                            FROM ABROAD
                                          </span></p>
                                        <p><span><a href="tel:%2B525541444475" target="_blank">+525541444475</a>
                                            DESDE MÉXICO
                                          </span></p>
                                        <p><span>SMS
                                            <a href="tel:%2B525541444475" target="_blank">
                                              +525541444475</a> <br>
                                                 Dr. Alejandro Pisanty<br>
                                            UNAM, Av. Universidad 3000,
                                            04510 Mexico DF Mexico<br>
                                            <br>
                                            Blog: <a href="http://pisanty.blogspot.com" target="_blank">http://pisanty.blogspot.com</a><br>
                                            LinkedIn: <a href="http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty" target="_blank">http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty</a><br>
                                            Unete al grupo UNAM en
                                            LinkedIn, <a href="http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614" target="_blank">
http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614</a><br>
                                            Twitter: <a href="http://twitter.com/apisanty" target="_blank">http://twitter.com/apisanty</a><br>
                                            ---->> Unete a ISOC
                                            Mexico, <a href="http://www.isoc.org" target="_blank">http://www.isoc.org</a><br>
                                            .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  . 
                                            .  .  .  .  .  .  . </span></p>
                                      </div>
                                    </div>
                                    <div>
                                      <div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:center" align="center">
                                        <hr align="center" size="2" width="100%">
                                      </div>
                                      <div>
                                        <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span style="font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">Desde:</span></b><span style="font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
                                            <a href="mailto:governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org" target="_blank">governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org</a>
                                            [<a href="mailto:governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org" target="_blank">governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org</a>]
                                            en nombre de Jovan Kurbalija
                                            [<a href="mailto:jovank@diplomacy.edu" target="_blank">jovank@diplomacy.edu</a>]<br>
                                            <b>Enviado el:</b> viernes,
                                            07 de diciembre de 2012
                                            08:37<br>
                                            <b>Hasta:</b> <a href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org" target="_blank">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a>;
                                            McTim<br>
                                            <b>Asunto:</b> Re:
                                            [governance] Internetistan,
                                            or the Bit Boat... a new
                                            approach to Internet
                                            governance!</span></p>
                                      </div>
                                      <div>
                                        <p class="MsoNormal">Well, we
                                          have innovation!  With the IGF
                                          in Bali, and ICANN on a cruise
                                          ship, we may have 'beach or
                                          floating governance'. Internet
                                          governance could be fun!</p>
                                        <div>
                                          <p class="MsoNormal"><br>
                                            I like the metaphor of the
                                            ship since it implies our
                                            common destiny. We are all
                                            passengers of ICANNia or
                                            ITUnia or...<b>?</b>      
                                            Metaphors are also useful to
                                            remove our tunnel vision and
                                            make us think more
                                            creatively. In another
                                            metaphor, I hope that
                                            Internetistan will resist
                                            Absurdistan (<a href="http://diplo.smugmug.com/ILLUSTRATIONS/Posters-1/4464706_T4FW6r#%21i=1104113260&k=2GsD8hV&lb=1&s=A" target="_blank">here is
                                              the map of this
                                              fast-growing country</a>).
                                            <br>
                                            <br>
                                            But back to the current
                                            reality. Unfortunately, the
                                            ICANN cruise ship won't
                                            solve the problem of
                                            internationalisation. 'Open
                                            sea' refers only to freedom
                                            of navigation. It does not
                                            deal with the status of the
                                            ship. All relations on the
                                            ship are regulated by the
                                            national law of the ship's
                                            flag. ICANNia has to be
                                            registered somewhere. One
                                            solution could be a flag of
                                            convenience such as Liberia
                                            or Panama.  What happens on
                                            the ICANNia is regulated by
                                            national law, with no major
                                            differences from any other
                                            land-based entity (company,
                                            organisation). Yes, ICANNia
                                            can sail in whatever
                                            direction it wants to sail,
                                            but the decision must be
                                            made by the captain
                                            according to the rules of
                                            the flag's state.
                                            Extrapolating from the role
                                            of the captain on the ship,
                                            the ICANNia would look like
                                            military unit. The cruise
                                            ship metaphor gets even more
                                            interesting  when we
                                            consider different classes
                                            of cabins, rescue
                                            operations, etc.<br>
                                            <br>
                                            These thoughts have taken me
                                            back to Hugo Grotius's book
                                            <i>Mare Liberum</i> that
                                            established the "open sea"
                                            concept four centuries ago
                                            as opposed to the idea of a
                                            <i>Mare Nostrum</i>. <b><span style="color:#cc0000"> </span></b>His
                                            relevance for our time is
                                            sobering. If we replace
                                            'sea' with 'Internet' we
                                            could have the next book on
                                            the Internet. Grotius was a
                                            very interesting
                                            personality.<b><span style="color:#cc0000"> </span></b>
                                            Besides being one of the
                                            first international lawyers,
                                            he was one of the founders
                                            of the 'natural law' school
                                            of thought.  In addition, he
                                            wrote a lot about social
                                            contract (before Rousseau,
                                            Locke, and others). As a
                                            matter of fact, his social
                                            contract theory could be
                                            applicable to the Internet. </p>
                                        </div>
                                        <div>
                                          <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                        </div>
                                        <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">When
                                          it comes to the concept of
                                          open sea, Grotius had an
                                          interesting interplay with the
                                          political masters of his era. 
                                          He believed in open sea, but
                                          Dutch and British authorities
                                          quickly realised the
                                          usefulness of his doctrine.
                                          They had the biggest fleets
                                          and had ambitions to develop
                                          trade and colonial empires.
                                          Grotius provided them with the
                                          necessary doctrine or
                                          'political software'. 
                                          However, Grotius always argued
                                          that 'open sea' needs rules
                                          and principles in order to be
                                          'open'. Although it was
                                          counter-intuitive to the
                                          leaders of two growing
                                          maritime powers, he managed to
                                          convince them that it was in
                                          their best interest to 'tame'
                                          their comparative powers and
                                          ensure the sustainability of
                                          their empires beyond the 17th
                                          century. Everything else has
                                          written the history, which
                                          proved Grotius right. We can
                                          draw many parallels, with the
                                          necessary caution that
                                          historical analogies should be
                                          handled with care.
                                          <br>
                                          <br>
                                          While we are waiting for a new
                                          Grotius (or Godot), we should
                                          review how we debate Internet
                                          governance issues. Grotius was
                                          a great scholar who mastered
                                          the existing rules before he
                                          started changing them. We, on
                                          the other hand, use
                                          well-defined and developed
                                          concepts in a relaxed way. A
                                          few examples...<br>
                                          <br>
                                          As we saw, the frequently used
                                          metaphor of the open sea does
                                          not translate to an open
                                          Internet. In many respects, it
                                          can lead in the opposite
                                          direction (Internet Nostrum). 
                                          <br>
                                          <br>
                                          Another example is the role of
                                          states' responsibility in the
                                          Internet era. This is a
                                          well-defined concept in
                                          international law. If we want
                                          states to be responsible for
                                          whatever is originating in
                                          their territories  (e.g.
                                          cyber-attacks, botnets),  we
                                          have to give them the tools to
                                          ensure their responsibility
                                          (mainly state control,
                                          regulation, and surveillance).
                                          Most writings on state
                                          responsibility start from the
                                          opposite assumption, i.e. the
                                          limited role of the state.
                                          With all the creativity and
                                          imagination in the world, we
                                          still cannot have it both
                                          ways. <br>
                                          <br>
                                          The most topical example of
                                          the need for evidence-based
                                          policy is the case of the Red
                                          Cross name/emblem at ICANN.
                                          There are very clear rules for
                                          the protection of the Red
                                          Cross name/emblem that were
                                          adopted some 100 years ago and
                                          have been followed, without 
                                          reservation, on national and
                                          international levels.  ICANN
                                          was right in protecting the
                                          Red Cross name but made the
                                          mistake of putting it together
                                          with organisations that do not
                                          enjoy the same status (the
                                          International Olympic
                                          Committee). 
                                          <br>
                                          <br>
                                          Even if we want to change the
                                          rules in order to adjust to
                                          the specificities of the
                                          Internet era (if any), we have
                                          first to master them. I see
                                          here an important role for
                                          academic and civil society
                                          communities. If we had advised
                                          ICANN to evaluate the Red
                                          Cross and IOC submissions
                                          separately, we could have
                                          avoided a lot of policy
                                          confusion and wasted time.
                                          <br>
                                          <br>
                                          The GIGANET might consider the
                                          evidence-based policy research
                                          as the key theme for the next
                                          meeting?<br>
                                          <br>
                                          Regards, Jovan <br>
                                          <br>
                                          <br>
                                        </p>
                                        <div>
                                          <p class="MsoNormal">On
                                            12/6/12 3:31 PM, McTim
                                            wrote:</p>
                                        </div>
                                        <blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
                                          <p class="MsoNormal">All, </p>
                                          <div>
                                            <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                          </div>
                                          <div>
                                            <p class="MsoNormal">If
                                              domiciling ICANN in a
                                              nation state is
                                              problematic, perhaps ICANN
                                              could buy this cruise ship
                                              as a HQ:</p>
                                          </div>
                                          <div>
                                            <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                          </div>
                                          <div>
                                            <p class="MsoNormal"><a href="http://cruiseship.homestead.com/Cruise-Ship.html" target="_blank">http://cruiseship.homestead.com/Cruise-Ship.html</a></p>
                                          </div>
                                          <div>
                                            <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                          </div>
                                          <div>
                                            <p class="MsoNormal">It
                                              would help solve the
                                              problem of
                                              internationalisation, be a
                                              permanent host for ICANN
                                              meetings (2450
                                              berths....saving hotel
                                              costs for all) and
                                              generate revenue
                                              intersessionally.  It's a
                                              3-fer, plus it's a snip @~
                                              300 million USD!!</p>
                                          </div>
                                          <div>
                                            <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                          </div>
                                          <div>
                                            <div>
                                              <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                            </div>
                                            <p class="MsoNormal">-- <br>
                                              Cheers,<br>
                                              <br>
                                              McTim<br>
                                              "A name indicates what we
                                              seek. An address indicates
                                              where it is. A route
                                              indicates how we get
                                              there."  Jon Postel</p>
                                          </div>
                                        </blockquote>
                                        <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                        <div>
                                          <p class="MsoNormal">-- </p>
                                          <div>
                                            <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none">
                                               </p>
                                            <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none">
                                              <b>Jovan Kurbalija, PhD</b></p>
                                            <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none">
                                              Director, DiploFoundation</p>
                                            <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none">
                                              <span lang="FR-CH">Rue de
                                                Lausanne 56 <b>| </b>1202
                                                Geneva <b>| </b>Switzerland</span></p>
                                            <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none">
                                              <b>Tel.</b> <span lang="FR-CH"><a href="tel:%2B41%20%280%29%2022%207410435" target="_blank">+41 (0) 22
                                                  7410435</a>
                                                <b>| Mobile.</b> <a href="tel:%2B41%20%280%29%20797884226" target="_blank">+41 (0) 797884226</a></span></p>
                                            <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none">
                                              <b>Email: </b><span lang="FR-CH"><a href="mailto:jovank@diplomacy.edu" target="_blank">jovank@diplomacy.edu</a></span> 
                                              <b><span lang="FR-CH">|
                                                  Twitter:</span></b><span lang="FR-CH">
                                                @jovankurbalija</span> </p>
                                            <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none">
                                               </p>
                                            <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none">
                                               </p>
                                            <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" lang="FR-CH">The
                                                  latest from Diplo:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" lang="FR-CH">
                                              </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""><a href="http://www.diplomacy.edu/currently" target="_blank">today – this
                                                  week – this month</a>
                                              </span><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:red">l</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">
                                                <a href="http://www.diplomacy.edu/conferences/innovation" target="_blank">Conference
                                                  on Innovation in
                                                  Diplomacy (Malta,
                                                  19-20 November 2012)</a>
                                              </span><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:red">l</span></b><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">
                                                </span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""><a href="http://www.diplomacy.edu/courses" target="_blank">new online
                                                  courses</a></span></p>
                                          </div>
                                        </div>
                                      </div>
                                    </div>
                                  </div>
                                </div>
                              </div>
                            </blockquote>
                          </div>
                        </div>
                        <blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
                          <div>
                            <p class="MsoNormal">____________________________________________________________</p>
                            <div>
                              <p class="MsoNormal"><br>
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                            </div>
                          </div>
                        </blockquote>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><br>
                      <br clear="all">
                    </p>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                    </div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal">-- <br>
                      ____________________<br>
                      Bertrand de La Chapelle</p>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal">Internet & Jurisdiction
                        Project Director, International Diplomatic
                        Academy (<a href="http://www.internetjurisdiction.net" target="_blank">www.internetjurisdiction.net</a>)</p>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal">Member, ICANN Board of
                        Directors <br>
                        Tel : <a href="tel:%2B33%20%280%296%2011%2088%2033%2032" value="+33611883332" target="_blank">+33 (0)6
                          11 88 33 32</a><br>
                        <br>
                        "Le plus beau métier des hommes, c'est d'unir
                        les hommes" Antoine de Saint Exupéry<br>
                        ("there is no greater mission for humans than
                        uniting humans")</p>
                    </div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                  </div>
                  <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br clear="all">
                    <span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#999999"></span></p>
                  <div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:center" align="center"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#999999">
                      <hr align="center" size="2" width="100%">
                    </span></div>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#999999">This
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                      05177472. Tel <a href="tel:%2B44%20845%20600%205244" value="+448456005244" target="_blank">+44 845
                        600 5244</a>. Email
                      <a href="mailto:enquiries@analysysmason.com" target="_blank">enquiries@analysysmason.com</a>
                      or visit
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                  Analysys Mason Limited is registered in England and
                  Wales. Registered office: Bush House, North West Wing,
                  London WC2B 4PJ, UK. Registered number 05177472. Tel <a href="tel:%2B44%20845%20600%205244" value="+448456005244" target="_blank">+44 845 600
                    5244</a>. Email <a href="mailto:enquiries@analysysmason.com" target="_blank">enquiries@analysysmason.com</a> or
                  visit <a href="http://www.analysysmason.com" target="_blank">www.analysysmason.com</a>
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      <div><br>
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      -- <br>
      <div>Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala</div>
      <div>P.O. Box 17862</div>
      <div>Suva</div>
      <div>Fiji</div>
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div>Twitter: @SalanietaT</div>
      <div>Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro</div>
      <div>Tel: <a href="tel:%2B679%203544828" value="+6793544828" target="_blank">+679 3544828</a></div>
      <div>Fiji Cell: <a href="tel:%2B679%20998%202851" value="+6799982851" target="_blank">+679 998 2851</a></div>
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</blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div>Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala</div><div>P.O. Box 17862</div><div>Suva</div><div>Fiji</div><div><br></div><div>Twitter: @SalanietaT</div><div>Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro</div>
<div>Tel: +679 3544828</div><div>Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851</div><div><br></div><div> </div><div><font color="#222222" face="arial, sans-serif"><span style="line-height:16px"><br></span></font></div><br>