<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div>you misspelled "fortunately"</div><div><br></div><div>I don't have any confidence at all in the CIRP or its wording.<br><br>--srs (iPad)</div><div><br>On 13-Dec-2012, at 9:55, parminder <<a href="mailto:parminder@itforchange.net">parminder@itforchange.net</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div>
<meta content="text/html; charset=windows-1252" http-equiv="Content-Type">
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On Wednesday 12 December 2012 09:24 PM,
Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:CAJwbTiCG2y8VG7G6zTxDVDdJY=MXSDWW0mqhvTRCUgKagtm3mw@mail.gmail.com" type="cite"><snip>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>If we continue with the example that Parminder raised in
relation to addressing IPR violations where the "subject" in
this case the "content" is in "transit"- this is why
countries around the world at least as far as IPRs have been
pushing harmonisation of their laws. </div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
Sala, <br>
Harmonisation of laws on IPR, which serves powerful interests, but
not on other areas - like tax accruals (see your own google tax
evasion posting), global net neutrality, consumer protection vis a
vis global digital companies and so on...<br>
<br>
And this is what global Internet related public policy making is all
about, from which so many of us rebound instinctively ... <br>
<br>
India's CIRP proposal described its intent as follows<br>
<br>
<blockquote>The intent behind proposing a multilateral and
multistakeholder mechanism is not to "control the Internet" or
allow Governments to have the last word in regulating the
Internet, but to make sure that the Internet is governed not
unilaterally, but in an open, democratic, inclusive and
participatory manner, with the participation of all stakeholders,
so as to evolve <i><b>universally acceptable, and globally
harmonized policies in important areas </b></i>and pave the
way for a credible, constantly evolving, stable and
wellfunctioning Internet that plays its due role in improving the
quality of peoples' lives everywhere. (emphasis added)<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
The other way of global harmonisation, as US and OECD wants, is for
these powerful countries to make policies and then arm twist others
to join in.... <br>
<br>
Civil society will need to take a view on what kind of 'global
harmonisation' do they want. What is your view?<br>
<br>
Unfortunately, till now most of the global civil society have
generally sided with the powerful in the above regard. <br>
<br>
<br>
parminder <br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:CAJwbTiCG2y8VG7G6zTxDVDdJY=MXSDWW0mqhvTRCUgKagtm3mw@mail.gmail.com" type="cite">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div> There are massive implications on openness etc.</div>
<div><br>
Sala </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="white" link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="EN-US">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org" target="_blank">governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org</a>
[mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org" target="_blank">governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>parminder<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, December 12, 2012 4:08 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org" target="_blank">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a></span></p>
<div>
<div class="h5"><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [governance] Internetistan, or
the Bit Boat... a new approach to Internet
governance!</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="h5">
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Wednesday 12 December 2012
07:24 PM, Michael Kende wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">Hello Bertrand and Nick,</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <snip_</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">The question then is whether
this principle of non-tampering with transit
traffic holds for traffic that may be stored in
the country, even if it was filtered along with
other international content before being viewed by
citizens of the country where it was hosted. </p>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
Michael<br>
<br>
You may know that third party cargo in transit is
being impounded in OECD countries for IP violation
when the stuff is made on one country and headed for
another, and has nothing to do with the impounding
jurisdiction. see for instance,
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://keionline.org/blogs/2009/02/03/intervention-by-brazil-at-wto-general-council-on-seizure-of-500-kilos-of-generic-medicines-by-dutch-customs-aut" target="_blank">
http://keionline.org/blogs/2009/02/03/intervention-by-brazil-at-wto-general-council-on-seizure-of-500-kilos-of-generic-medicines-by-dutch-customs-aut</a><br>
<br>
There have been other cases as well. I understand
'border measures' envisaged under ACTA also enables
such in transit seizures of third party goods.<br>
<br>
parminder <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Michael</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org" target="_blank">governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org</a>
[<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org" target="_blank">mailto:governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Bertrand de La Chapelle<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, December 11, 2012 6:11 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Nick Ashton-Hart<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org" target="_blank">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a>;
Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch; Jovan Kurbalija;
McTim<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [governance] Internetistan, or
the Bit Boat... a new approach to Internet
governance!</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Dear Nick, </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Just a brief comment on the
issue of "transit traffic". This is an interesting
component to explore. As I have often said, I
believe that Egypt acted in reference to an
implicit emerging international principle of "<b>non-tampering
with transit traffic</b>" when it blocked access
to the Internet during the Arab Spring but did not
impact the transit traffic serving the easter
coast of Africa. </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Discussing this in more detail
would indeed be useful and could probably be part
of an international/global regime. </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Best</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Bertrand</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Sat, Dec 8, 2012 at 12:27
PM, Nick Ashton-Hart <<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:nashton@ccianet.org" target="_blank">nashton@ccianet.org</a>>
wrote:</p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Funny, I have been
thinking of the Law of the Sea for a few
weeks as an interesting construct for the
legal protection of the open flow of data.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">It is true that there's a
built environment to the Internet - but in
maritime law ships are also physical and
registered with a state. However, the space
they travel through, beyond the territorial
waters limit, is open sea and by definition
not owned by anyone.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">If we used this construct
to protect the flow of international data,
that might be a workable metaphor. The Law
of the Sea embodied in UNCLOS is, after all,
largely simply a distillation of
internationally-understood principles about
maritime law that go back to the Roman
period. </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">We could do much worse
than an international understanding that
data, when transiting any country between a
source and destination in third countries,
was legally not actually 'in' the territory
or subject to the laws of the state it was
transiting, but subject only to an
international regime. <br>
<br>
(Bertrand: these ideas are what I was
speaking of when I told you at Baku I had an
idea for your jurisdiction project that
might have potential).</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">FWIW: For those who are
about to remind me, I am aware that the USG
has yet to ratify UNCLOS. It is clear that
the current Administration is very much in
favour of doing so, however, as are many
members of the legislative branch).</p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">-- </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Regards,</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Nick Ashton-Hart</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Geneva Representative</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Computer &
Communications Industry Assocation (CCIA)</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Tel: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:%2B41%20%2822%29%20534%2099%2045" target="_blank">
+41 (22) 534 99 45</a></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Fax: : <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:%2B41%20%2822%29%20594-85-44" target="_blank">
+41 (22) 594-85-44</a></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Mobile: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:%2B41%2079%20595%205468" target="_blank">
+41 79 595 5468</a> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">USA DID: </p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></blockquote></div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><div><span>____________________________________________________________</span><br><span>You received this message as a subscriber on the list:</span><br><span> <a href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a></span><br><span>To be removed from the list, visit:</span><br><span> <a href="http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing">http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing</a></span><br><span></span><br><span>For all other list information and functions, see:</span><br><span> <a href="http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance">http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance</a></span><br><span>To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:</span><br><span> <a href="http://www.igcaucus.org/">http://www.igcaucus.org/</a></span><br><span></span><br><span>Translate this email: <a href="http://translate.google.com/translate_t">http://translate.google.com/translate_t</a></span><br></div></blockquote></body></html>