<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Dec 13, 2012 at 5:49 PM, parminder <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:parminder@itforchange.net" target="_blank">parminder@itforchange.net</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<br>
<div>On Thursday 13 December 2012 02:05 PM,
Adam Peake wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">-1
<div><br>
</div>
<div>write to politicians. </div>
</blockquote>
<br>
You mean we should write to governments? Good idea. Which venue you
think is best to address in this regard? Remember, there is a
strong, perhaps, central, element of inter-country issues here. <br><div class="im">
<br></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Well not really as taxes are national. So I would recommend we draft a letter and send to respective ICT ministries, treasury and appropriate MPs (or equivalent.) And to the countries such as Ireland, Luxembourg, etc favored by companies like Google, Amazon eyc.</div>
<div><br></div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"><div class="im">
<blockquote type="cite">
<div> to google would be just posturing.</div>
</blockquote>
<br></div>
You means that they would not pay heed to civil society's voice/
statement on this, and not bother to respond? If nothing else, that
will be interesting to note, given the numerous close compacts with
civil society that google has worked up in these last few months on
many global IG issues.<span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><br>
<br></font></span></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>No. </div><div><br></div><div>(disclosure, GLOCOM hosts a Google Policy Fellow)</div><div><br></div><div>Adam</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div>
<div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"><span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888">
parminder <br></font></span><div><div class="h5">
<blockquote type="cite">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Adam</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Dec 13, 2012 at 1:40 PM,
Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro@gmail.com" target="_blank">salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div>On Thu, Dec 13, 2012 at 5:33 PM, parminder
<span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:parminder@itforchange.net" target="_blank">parminder@itforchange.net</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"> <br>
<font face="Verdana">Rather shameful that google
paid 3 percent tax on its overseas profit!! It
surely leaves it with a lot of money to spend in
lobbying and advocacy efforts to keep global
markets free for its unlettered operations... Like
organising campaigns against ITU, German
legislature, and so on. <br>
<br>
Would IGC write an open letter to Google that its
tax evasion policy is anti people, and it should
pays its taxes where it makes its profit. (Or is
it that the IG civil society does not go into such
re-distributional questions ) It is not
rhetorical but a real question to the list, and
its coordinator. <br>
</font></div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<div>What does the list think? </div>
<div>+1 if you think the IGC should write a letter to
Google</div>
<div>-1 if the IGC should not write a letter to Google</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>As always the IGC decides </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<div>
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"><font face="Verdana"><span><font color="#888888"> <br>
parminder <br>
<br>
<br>
</font></span></font>
<div>
<div>
<div>On Wednesday 12 December 2012 09:37 PM,
Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">More on Bloomberg: <a href="http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-12-10/google-revenues-sheltered-in-no-tax-bermuda-soar-to-10-billion.html" target="_blank">http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-12-10/google-revenues-sheltered-in-no-tax-bermuda-soar-to-10-billion.html</a><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Dec 13,
2012 at 4:48 AM, Salanieta T.
Tamanikaiwaimaro <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro@gmail.com" target="_blank">salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Somehow it feels that there is a
targeted media campaign out against
the likes of Google and other mncs -
the timing of the release is almost
impeccable with the WCIT. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Source: <a href="http://www.telecomtv.com/comspace_newsDetail.aspx?n=49763&id=e9381817-0593-417a-8639-c4c53e2a2a10" target="_blank">http://www.telecomtv.com/comspace_newsDetail.aspx?n=49763&id=e9381817-0593-417a-8639-c4c53e2a2a10</a></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<h1><span style="padding:0px;margin:0px">Google
“can make money without doing evil”
(as it evades $2bn in taxes)</span></h1>
<div>Posted By <a href="http://www.telecomtv.com/go/?ct=9&id=e9381817-0593-417a-8639-c4c53e2a2a10" style="padding:0px;margin:0px;color:rgb(205,153,0)" target="_blank">TelecomTV
One</a> , <span style="padding:0px;margin:0px">12
December 2012</span> | <a href="http://www.telecomtv.com/comspace_newsDetail.aspx?n=49763&id=e9381817-0593-417a-8639-c4c53e2a2a10#comments" style="padding:0px;margin:0px;color:rgb(205,153,0)" target="_blank"><span style="padding:0px;margin:0px">1</span> Comments</a> | <span style="padding:0px;margin:0px;font-size:11px;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;white-space:nowrap"><img title="0
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<span style="padding:0px;margin:0px">Tags:</span> <i style="padding:0px;margin:0px"><a href="http://www.telecomtv.com/results.aspx?tag=122&tagname=Google" style="padding:0px;margin:0px;color:rgb(205,153,0)" target="_blank">Google</a></i> <i style="padding:0px;margin:0px"><a href="http://www.telecomtv.com/results.aspx?tag=6972&tagname=corporate" style="padding:0px;margin:0px;color:rgb(205,153,0)" target="_blank">corporate</a></i> <i style="padding:0px;margin:0px"><a href="http://www.telecomtv.com/results.aspx?tag=434&tagname=tax" style="padding:0px;margin:0px;color:rgb(205,153,0)" target="_blank">tax</a></i> <i style="padding:0px;margin:0px"><a href="http://www.telecomtv.com/results.aspx?tag=365&tagname=Finance" style="padding:0px;margin:0px;color:rgb(205,153,0)" target="_blank">Finance</a></i></div>
<div>
<p style="padding:0px;margin:0px"> <span style="padding:0px;margin:0px">As
the net closes around the
multinationals that avoid paying
corporation taxes, Google is
accused of saving $2bn by routing
income through a “Double Irish
Dutch Sandwich”, paying tax of
just 3.2 per cent on its overseas
profits. Guy Daniels reports.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style="padding:0px;margin:0px"> </p>
<p style="padding:0px;margin:0px">Three
questions. One; where do you stand
on the subject of tax avoidance? We
at TelecomTV believe that
individuals and corporations have a
duty to pay their fair share of tax.
By fair, we mean whatever respective
governments rule to be the legal
requirement (after all, in most
countries, we voted the politicians
in to office). By all means try and
mitigate the amount of tax you have
to pay, using whatever accepted
mechanisms are available. But
avoidance? That just means somebody
else (with far less access to
expensive and clever advisors) has
to contribute to your share as well.</p>
<p style="padding:0px;margin:0px"> </p>
<p style="padding:0px;margin:0px">Second
question: how do you define evil?
The Oxford English Dictionary
defines evil as “profoundly immoral
and wicked” or “something which is
harmful or undesirable”. In my book,
that means tax avoidance is evil,
simple as that.</p>
<p style="padding:0px;margin:0px"> </p>
<p style="padding:0px;margin:0px">Third
and final question: Is Google evil?
If you believe that avoiding tax is
wrong (especially through aggressive
and mind-boggling complicated
avoidance schemes) and if you
believe that depriving society of
tax revenues is wrong (and so
reducing the level of available
State support for the most needy)
and could be described as an evil
act, then surely you must conclude
that Google is acting in an evil
manner.</p>
<p style="padding:0px;margin:0px"> </p>
<p style="padding:0px;margin:0px">An
investigative report by <a href="http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-12-10/google-revenues-sheltered-in-no-tax-bermuda-soar-to-10-billion.html" style="padding:0px;margin:0px;color:rgb(57,48,44)" target="_blank">Bloomberg</a> has
discovered that Google avoided about
$2 billion in worldwide income taxes
in 2011 by shifting $9.8 billion in
revenues into a Bermuda shell
company – almost double its total
from three years ago. The
information was disclosed in a
November filing by a Google
subsidiary in the Netherlands, which
was discovered by reporters from
Bloomberg.</p>
<p style="padding:0px;margin:0px"> </p>
<p style="padding:0px;margin:0px">It
appears that Google legally routed
profits from overseas subsidiaries
into Bermuda, which doesn’t have a
corporate income tax, thereby
enabling it to cut its overall tax
rate almost in half. Bloomberg says
the amount moved to Bermuda is
equivalent to about 80 per cent of
Google’s total pretax profit in
2011.</p>
<p style="padding:0px;margin:0px"> </p>
<p style="padding:0px;margin:0px">Tax
evasion and avoidance costs the
European Union a staggering €1
trillion a year. That’s worth
dwelling on for a moment longer…. €1
trillion. No wonder politicians are
now acting to try and prevent this
financial loss and branding such
acts as scandalous and immoral.</p>
<p style="padding:0px;margin:0px"> </p>
<p style="padding:0px;margin:0px">Bloomberg
has a good quote from a UK-based tax
accountant, which pretty much sums
up the feeling in Europe at the
moment. According to Richard Murphy
of Tax Research:</p>
<p style="padding:0px;margin:0px"> </p>
<p style="padding:0px;margin:0px 0px 0px 40px"><cite style="padding:0px;margin:0px">“The
tax strategy of Google and other
multinationals is a deep
embarrassment to governments
around Europe. The political
awareness now being created in the
UK, and to a lesser degree
elsewhere in Europe, is: It’s us
or them. People understand that if
Google doesn’t pay, somebody else
has to pay or services get cut.”</cite></p>
<p style="padding:0px;margin:0px"> </p>
<p style="padding:0px;margin:0px">Just
look what happened to Starbucks.
When the public discovered the US
coffee giant paid zero taxes in the
UK (yes, absolutely nothing at all),
it started to boycott the chain.</p>
<div style="padding:0px;margin:15px 0px 10px;text-align:center">
<div style="padding:0px;margin:0px;color:rgb(128,128,128);font-size:10px">Advertisement</div>
</div>
As a result, Starbucks was forced to
“volunteer” to pay taxes…
<p style="padding:0px;margin:0px"> </p>
<p style="padding:0px;margin:0px"> </p>
<p style="padding:0px;margin:0px">The
UK is Google’s second-biggest
market, responsible for about 11 per
cent of its sales. Of the $4 billion
it turned over last year, it paid UK
corporation tax of less than $10
million. Bloomberg says Google
avoids tax by using an Irish
subsidiary to collects revenues from
ads sold in the UK, which then pays
royalties to another Irish
subsidiary whose legal residence is
in Bermuda. Payments are then sent
to yet another subsidiary in the
Netherlands (with no employees,
note) before finally reaching the
tax haven of Bermuda.</p>
<p style="padding:0px;margin:0px"> </p>
<p style="padding:0px;margin:0px">Sounds
pretty ‘evil’ to me. And if so, then
that’s against the internet
company’s guiding principles. Stated
clearly on the “Ten Things We Know
to be True” page on <a href="http://www.google.com/about/company/philosophy/" style="padding:0px;margin:0px;color:rgb(57,48,44)" target="_blank">Google</a>’s
website is the following:</p>
<p style="padding:0px;margin:0px"> </p>
<p style="padding:0px;margin:0px 0px 0px 40px"><cite style="padding:0px;margin:0px">“You
can make money without doing
evil.”</cite></p>
<p style="padding:0px;margin:0px"> </p>
<p style="padding:0px;margin:0px"> I’m
sorry, Google, but I don’t see how
avoiding tax is anything but evil.
Of course you – and all companies –
have a duty to shareholders to
maximise profits. But there are
rules. Some of these are merely
ethical, whilst some are legal.
There is no indication or suggestion
that Google has acted illegally, but
there is every suggestion that it
has acted unethically.</p>
<p style="padding:0px;margin:0px"> </p>
<p style="padding:0px;margin:0px">And
who said you can’t have ‘ethical
companies’? Of course you can. I
don’t buy the ‘extreme capitalist’
viewpoint that corporations will
only act in self-interest and never
“do the right thing” or pay their
fair share. If their customers start
to boycott their services, then
they’ll change. It happened with the
sudden emergence of all the
so-called ‘corporate responsibility’
positions that all featured heavily
in annual reports. I don’t see why
it can’t happen with fair tax
positions.</p>
<p style="padding:0px;margin:0px"> </p>
<p style="padding:0px;margin:0px">Other
ICT companies reported in the media
to be using this complicated tax
evasion (sorry lawyers, of course I
mean ‘mitigation’…) structure
include Apple, Facebook, Microsoft
and Oracle. Unfortunately, Google –
and all the others, who no doubt
will soon be named and shamed – will
continue their sharp practices until
they are forced to make a change. If
governments can’t do that through
the legal process, then it’s up to
customers to vote with their feet
and walk away from Google services.
As Richard Murphy said, consumers
are beginning to get the message
that it’s “us or them”, and we’re
already being squeezed by the many
austerity measures that are in
effect to drag us out of recession.</p>
<p style="padding:0px;margin:0px"> </p>
<p style="padding:0px;margin:0px">Come
on Google, time to step up to the
plate and show some leadership. Pay
your fair share. And then the rest
of the ICT industry can do likewise.
Or else remove that fatuous and
out-dated “don’t do evil” slogan
from your website once and for all.</p>
<p style="padding:0px;margin:0px"> </p>
<p style="padding:0px;margin:0px"><u style="padding:0px;margin:0px">Further
reading: </u>The <a href="http://www.pearse-trust.ie/blog/bid/86105/US-Companies-Their-Use-Of-The-Double-Irish-Dutch-Sandwich" style="padding:0px;margin:0px;color:rgb(57,48,44)" target="_blank">Pearse
Trust</a> blog has a detailed
explanation of the so-called “Double
Irish Dutch Sandwich” tax scheme.
Please don’t try and implement it.</p>
<p style="padding:0px;margin:0px"> </p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<br clear="all">
<div><br>
</div>
-- <br>
<div>Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala</div>
<div>P.O. Box 17862</div>
<div>Suva</div>
<div>Fiji</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Twitter: @SalanietaT</div>
<div>Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro</div>
<div>Tel: <a href="tel:%2B679%203544828" value="+6793544828" target="_blank">+679
3544828</a></div>
<div>Fiji Cell: <a href="tel:%2B679%20998%202851" value="+6799982851" target="_blank">+679
998 2851</a></div>
<div><br>
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<div> </div>
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<div>P.O. Box 17862</div>
<div>Suva</div>
<div>Fiji</div>
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Twitter: @SalanietaT</div>
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