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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On Thursday 13 December 2012 10:07 AM,
Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAJwbTiB4jEb7LoU09QduUGQvrmuOAhCU2aKBi2nQb4nh7J=Nvg@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite"><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Dec 13, 2012 at 5:25 PM,
parminder <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:parminder@itforchange.net" target="_blank">parminder@itforchange.net</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"> <br>
<div>On Wednesday 12 December 2012 09:24 PM, Salanieta T.
Tamanikaiwaimaro wrote:<br>
</div>
<snip></div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>One of the challenges however is the polarisation between
some commercially driven segments and governments over the
taxation issues but will not get into that.</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
Why would we not get into that? I did not understand. The
polarisation is quite understandable and structural, isnt it. You
cannot expect the big business to side on paying taxes, against not
paying them, can you. <br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAJwbTiB4jEb7LoU09QduUGQvrmuOAhCU2aKBi2nQb4nh7J=Nvg@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div> To discuss harmonisation is not the solution</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
Again, cant understand the basis of your statement. Why can there
not be harmonisation of national and global law, whereby, for
instance, Bermuda is not able to provide the haven it does, and
google is not able to avail of it, even if Bermuda does provide. How
easily we push aside a redistributional issue - of greatest
significance to the less powerful - saying lets not talk about it,
it is not practical and so on.... Are you saying such
redistributional issues do not make to the grade of global IG
issues. (which is what i really see happening mostly in global IG
spaces)<br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAJwbTiB4jEb7LoU09QduUGQvrmuOAhCU2aKBi2nQb4nh7J=Nvg@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div> in my view as my assessment as there is no way that
parties will come together too much is at stake for them and
it is in the billions of revenue and sadly for most people
this is what makes the world go round.</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
So, since business would not ever agree to higher taxes, or even
paying any at all if it can manage that, you seem to be suggesting
that we give up such issues?? that is where multistakeholderism
collapses, like it would always when faced with an issue of
redistribution and not just a system-management kind. I am shocked
at the fatalism implied in 'that is what makes the world go
around'... So, is that your message to those left out, and
marginalised. Give up the hopes of a socially and economically just
system and society, because we have multistakeholderism now, and
business must agree to everything... bad luck if you dont like it,
but that is what makes the world go around... and we the civil
society are here to help the world go around as it in any case does
go around....<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAJwbTiB4jEb7LoU09QduUGQvrmuOAhCU2aKBi2nQb4nh7J=Nvg@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>What we would be better off doing is a thorough assessment
of all the layers and pointing out the dangers that highlight
regulatory trends globally </div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
Dangers, and nothing at all about the good possibilities from
regulation, right! Is that what your politics is limited to.
Ensuring proper distribution of tax accrual from global business is
also a global regulatory issue - and a positive one. But you want to
only look at the dangers. <br>
I well understand this model and paradigm of governance, which is
why I resist it so much. Many things at WCIT do threaten people's
rights, and they must be fought. But, all this that is being
orchestrated at and around WCIT is also a part of a larger effort to
let go of all governance or regulation that can have a
re-distributional impact, or even just a positive impact on the more
marginalized, which could be merely of ensuring a level playing
field... Basically, a big NO to global economic and social rights. <br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAJwbTiB4jEb7LoU09QduUGQvrmuOAhCU2aKBi2nQb4nh7J=Nvg@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div>and also point out threats to openess and why it is in the
world's interests that we continue to have an open and free
internet but at the same time fulfil our core responsible
citizens as good citizens or global citizens or netizens but
some would argue that this is utopia and a suburb of
Absurdistan.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Even beyond the WCIT, stakeholders need to reflect on the
"bigger picture" - meaning both civil society, private sector
and the public sector - multistakeholder has to transcend
getting people of diverse compositions into the same room but
recognising and respecting the diverse roles that each plays
so that there is real harmonisation and not a legislated one.</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
There will always be need for legislation. I shudder to think of a
polity where nothing can be done without full agreement of the most
powerful. That is a kind of neo-feudalism. That is not how
progressive change takes place... And, yes, this is not about WCIT.
That would be over tomorrow. It is about what we are going to do
beyond it. <br>
<br>
parminder <br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAJwbTiB4jEb7LoU09QduUGQvrmuOAhCU2aKBi2nQb4nh7J=Nvg@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"> <br>
And this is what global Internet related public policy
making is all about, from which so many of us rebound
instinctively ... <br>
<br>
India's CIRP proposal described its intent as follows<br>
<br>
<blockquote>The intent behind proposing a multilateral and
multistakeholder mechanism is not to "control the
Internet" or allow Governments to have the last word in
regulating the Internet, but to make sure that the
Internet is governed not unilaterally, but in an open,
democratic, inclusive and participatory manner, with the
participation of all stakeholders, so as to evolve <i><b>universally
acceptable, and globally harmonized policies in
important areas </b></i>and pave the way for a
credible, constantly evolving, stable and
wellfunctioning Internet that plays its due role in
improving the quality of peoples' lives everywhere.
(emphasis added)<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
The other way of global harmonisation, as US and OECD wants,
is for these powerful countries to make policies and then
arm twist others to join in.... <br>
<br>
Civil society will need to take a view on what kind of
'global harmonisation' do they want. What is your view?<br>
<br>
Unfortunately, till now most of the global civil society
have generally sided with the powerful in the above regard.
<br>
<span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"> <br>
<br>
parminder <br>
</font></span>
<div>
<div class="h5"> <br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div> There are massive implications on openness
etc.</div>
<div><br>
Sala </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="white" link="blue" vlink="purple"
lang="EN-US">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid
#b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org"
target="_blank">governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org</a>
[mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org"
target="_blank">governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>parminder<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, December 12,
2012 4:08 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org" target="_blank">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a></span></p>
<div>
<div><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [governance]
Internetistan, or the Bit Boat... a
new approach to Internet governance!</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Wednesday 12
December 2012 07:24 PM, Michael Kende
wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">Hello Bertrand and
Nick,</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <snip_</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">The question then
is whether this principle of
non-tampering with transit traffic
holds for traffic that may be stored
in the country, even if it was
filtered along with other
international content before being
viewed by citizens of the country
where it was hosted. </p>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
Michael<br>
<br>
You may know that third party cargo in
transit is being impounded in OECD
countries for IP violation when the
stuff is made on one country and headed
for another, and has nothing to do with
the impounding jurisdiction. see for
instance, <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://keionline.org/blogs/2009/02/03/intervention-by-brazil-at-wto-general-council-on-seizure-of-500-kilos-of-generic-medicines-by-dutch-customs-aut"
target="_blank">
http://keionline.org/blogs/2009/02/03/intervention-by-brazil-at-wto-general-council-on-seizure-of-500-kilos-of-generic-medicines-by-dutch-customs-aut</a><br>
<br>
There have been other cases as well. I
understand 'border measures' envisaged
under ACTA also enables such in transit
seizures of third party goods.<br>
<br>
parminder <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Michael</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org"
target="_blank">governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org</a>
[<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org"
target="_blank">mailto:governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Bertrand de La
Chapelle<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, December 11,
2012 6:11 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Nick Ashton-Hart<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org" target="_blank">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a>;
Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch; Jovan
Kurbalija; McTim<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [governance]
Internetistan, or the Bit Boat... a
new approach to Internet governance!</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Dear Nick, </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Just a brief
comment on the issue of "transit
traffic". This is an interesting
component to explore. As I have often
said, I believe that Egypt acted in
reference to an implicit emerging
international principle of "<b>non-tampering
with transit traffic</b>" when it
blocked access to the Internet during
the Arab Spring but did not impact the
transit traffic serving the easter
coast of Africa. </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Discussing this in
more detail would indeed be useful and
could probably be part of an
international/global regime. </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Best</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Bertrand</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Sat, Dec 8,
2012 at 12:27 PM, Nick Ashton-Hart
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:nashton@ccianet.org"
target="_blank">nashton@ccianet.org</a>>
wrote:</p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Funny, I have
been thinking of the Law of the
Sea for a few weeks as an
interesting construct for the
legal protection of the open
flow of data.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">It is true
that there's a built environment
to the Internet - but in
maritime law ships are also
physical and registered with a
state. However, the space they
travel through, beyond the
territorial waters limit, is
open sea and by definition not
owned by anyone.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">If we used
this construct to protect the
flow of international data, that
might be a workable metaphor.
The Law of the Sea embodied in
UNCLOS is, after all, largely
simply a distillation of
internationally-understood
principles about maritime law
that go back to the Roman
period. </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">We could do
much worse than an international
understanding that data, when
transiting any country between a
source and destination in third
countries, was legally not
actually 'in' the territory or
subject to the laws of the state
it was transiting, but subject
only to an international
regime. <br>
<br>
(Bertrand: these ideas are what
I was speaking of when I told
you at Baku I had an idea for
your jurisdiction project that
might have potential).</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">FWIW: For
those who are about to remind
me, I am aware that the USG has
yet to ratify UNCLOS. It is
clear that the current
Administration is very much in
favour of doing so, however, as
are many members of the
legislative branch).</p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">-- </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Regards,</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Nick
Ashton-Hart</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Geneva
Representative</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Computer
& Communications Industry
Assocation (CCIA)</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Tel: <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="tel:%2B41%20%2822%29%20534%2099%2045"
target="_blank"> +41 (22)
534 99 45</a></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Fax: : <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="tel:%2B41%20%2822%29%20594-85-44"
target="_blank"> +41 (22)
594-85-44</a></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Mobile: <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="tel:%2B41%2079%20595%205468"
target="_blank"> +41 79 595
5468</a> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">USA DID: <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="tel:%2B1%20%28202%29%20640-5430"
target="_blank"> +1 (202)
640-5430</a></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>Need to
meet with me? Schedule the
time that suits us both
here: <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://meetme.so/nashton"
target="_blank">http://meetme.so/nashton</a></b></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Sent from
my one of my handheld
thingies, please excuse
linguistic mangling.</p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
On 7 Dec 2012, at 16:23,
"Dr. Alejandro Pisanty
Baruch" <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:apisan@unam.mx"
target="_blank">apisan@unam.mx</a>>
wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Jovan,
</span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>thanks
for doing a pretty
innovative thing
here: discussing
ideas. Further,
bringing a fresh
approach and actual
expertise. </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>My
long-standing
concern for
analogies between
Internet governance
and the laws of the
sea is that the
Internet is much
more a built
environment than the
sea (not that the
sea is all natural
and in fixed form
forever, immune to
our contamination
and our
imagintion.) </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>So
Internet governance
refers not only to
rules etc. to live
on the existing
Internet, but also
has to be useful as
guidance in its
expansion and
development. To
abuse your analogy,
it's not only about
shipping, fishing,
and mining, but also
about how to
actually make the
oceans of tomorrow. </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>That
brings you to points
like: you can use
Ostromian theory to
understand the
tragedy of the
commons in
fisheries; but can
you extend it to
Internet governance?
What are the
limitations? Can you
address concerns
from liberals to
socialists in a new
framework without
actually changing
the salinity or
wanting to reverse
the flow of the
Humboldt current? </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Any
thoughts?</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Yours,</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Alejandro
Pisanty</span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span>
</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span>!
!! !!! !!!!</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span>NEW
PHONE NUMBER -
NUEVO NÚMERO
DE TELÉFONO</span></p>
</div>
<p><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> </span></p>
<p><span><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="tel:%2B52-1-5541444475" target="_blank">+52-1-5541444475</a> FROM
ABROAD </span></p>
<p><span><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="tel:%2B525541444475" target="_blank">+525541444475</a> DESDE
MÉXICO </span></p>
<p><span>SMS <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="tel:%2B525541444475" target="_blank"> +525541444475</a> <br>
Dr.
Alejandro
Pisanty<br>
UNAM, Av.
Universidad
3000, 04510
Mexico DF Mexico<br>
<br>
Blog: <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://pisanty.blogspot.com" target="_blank">http://pisanty.blogspot.com</a><br>
LinkedIn: <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty" target="_blank">http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty</a><br>
Unete al grupo
UNAM en
LinkedIn, <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614" target="_blank">
http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614</a><br>
Twitter: <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://twitter.com/apisanty" target="_blank">http://twitter.com/apisanty</a><br>
---->>
Unete a ISOC
Mexico, <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.isoc.org" target="_blank">http://www.isoc.org</a><br>
. . . . .
. . . . .
. . . . .
. </span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"
style="text-align:center" align="center">
<hr align="center"
size="2"
width="100%"> </div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span
style="font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">Desde:</span></b><span
style="font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org" target="_blank">governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org</a>
[<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org" target="_blank">governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org</a>]
en nombre de
Jovan Kurbalija
[<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:jovank@diplomacy.edu" target="_blank">jovank@diplomacy.edu</a>]<br>
<b>Enviado el:</b>
viernes, 07 de
diciembre de
2012 08:37<br>
<b>Hasta:</b> <a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org"
target="_blank">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a>;
McTim<br>
<b>Asunto:</b>
Re: [governance]
Internetistan,
or the Bit
Boat... a new
approach to
Internet
governance!</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Well,
we have
innovation! With
the IGF in Bali,
and ICANN on a
cruise ship, we
may have 'beach or
floating
governance'.
Internet
governance could
be fun!</p>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><br>
I like the
metaphor of the
ship since it
implies our
common destiny.
We are all
passengers of
ICANNia or
ITUnia or...<b>?</b>
Metaphors
are also useful
to remove our
tunnel vision
and make us
think more
creatively. In
another
metaphor, I hope
that
Internetistan
will resist
Absurdistan (<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://diplo.smugmug.com/ILLUSTRATIONS/Posters-1/4464706_T4FW6r#%21i=1104113260&k=2GsD8hV&lb=1&s=A"
target="_blank">here is the map of this fast-growing country</a>). <br>
<br>
But back to the
current reality.
Unfortunately,
the ICANN cruise
ship won't solve
the problem of
internationalisation.
'Open sea'
refers only to
freedom of
navigation. It
does not deal
with the status
of the ship. All
relations on the
ship are
regulated by the
national law of
the ship's flag.
ICANNia has to
be registered
somewhere. One
solution could
be a flag of
convenience such
as Liberia or
Panama. What
happens on the
ICANNia is
regulated by
national law,
with no major
differences from
any other
land-based
entity (company,
organisation).
Yes, ICANNia can
sail in whatever
direction it
wants to sail,
but the decision
must be made by
the captain
according to the
rules of the
flag's state.
Extrapolating
from the role of
the captain on
the ship, the
ICANNia would
look like
military unit.
The cruise ship
metaphor gets
even more
interesting
when we consider
different
classes of
cabins, rescue
operations, etc.<br>
<br>
These thoughts
have taken me
back to Hugo
Grotius's book <i>Mare
Liberum</i>
that established
the "open sea"
concept four
centuries ago as
opposed to the
idea of a <i>Mare
Nostrum</i>. <b><span
style="color:#cc0000"> </span></b>His relevance for our time is
sobering. If we
replace 'sea'
with 'Internet'
we could have
the next book on
the Internet.
Grotius was a
very interesting
personality.<b><span
style="color:#cc0000"> </span></b> Besides being one of the first
international
lawyers, he was
one of the
founders of the
'natural law'
school of
thought. In
addition, he
wrote a lot
about social
contract (before
Rousseau, Locke,
and others). As
a matter of
fact, his social
contract theory
could be
applicable to
the Internet. </p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">When it comes to the concept of open sea,
Grotius had an
interesting
interplay with the
political masters
of his era. He
believed in open
sea, but Dutch and
British
authorities
quickly realised
the usefulness of
his doctrine. They
had the biggest
fleets and had
ambitions to
develop trade and
colonial empires.
Grotius provided
them with the
necessary doctrine
or 'political
software'.
However, Grotius
always argued that
'open sea' needs
rules and
principles in
order to be
'open'. Although
it was
counter-intuitive
to the leaders of
two growing
maritime powers,
he managed to
convince them that
it was in their
best interest to
'tame' their
comparative powers
and ensure the
sustainability of
their empires
beyond the 17th
century.
Everything else
has written the
history, which
proved Grotius
right. We can draw
many parallels,
with the necessary
caution that
historical
analogies should
be handled with
care. <br>
<br>
While we are
waiting for a new
Grotius (or
Godot), we should
review how we
debate Internet
governance issues.
Grotius was a
great scholar who
mastered the
existing rules
before he started
changing them. We,
on the other hand,
use well-defined
and developed
concepts in a
relaxed way. A few
examples...<br>
<br>
As we saw, the
frequently used
metaphor of the
open sea does not
translate to an
open Internet. In
many respects, it
can lead in the
opposite direction
(Internet
Nostrum). <br>
<br>
Another example is
the role of
states'
responsibility in
the Internet era.
This is a
well-defined
concept in
international law.
If we want states
to be responsible
for whatever is
originating in
their territories
(e.g.
cyber-attacks,
botnets), we have
to give them the
tools to ensure
their
responsibility
(mainly state
control,
regulation, and
surveillance).
Most writings on
state
responsibility
start from the
opposite
assumption, i.e.
the limited role
of the state. With
all the creativity
and imagination in
the world, we
still cannot have
it both ways. <br>
<br>
The most topical
example of the
need for
evidence-based
policy is the case
of the Red Cross
name/emblem at
ICANN. There are
very clear rules
for the protection
of the Red Cross
name/emblem that
were adopted some
100 years ago and
have been
followed, without
reservation, on
national and
international
levels. ICANN was
right in
protecting the Red
Cross name but
made the mistake
of putting it
together with
organisations that
do not enjoy the
same status (the
International
Olympic
Committee). <br>
<br>
Even if we want to
change the rules
in order to adjust
to
the specificities of
the Internet era
(if any), we have
first to master
them. I see here
an important role
for academic and
civil society
communities. If we
had advised ICANN
to evaluate the
Red Cross and IOC
submissions
separately, we
could have avoided
a lot of policy
confusion and
wasted time. <br>
<br>
The GIGANET might
consider the
evidence-based
policy research as
the key theme for
the next meeting?<br>
<br>
Regards, Jovan <br>
<br>
<br>
</p>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal">On
12/6/12 3:31 PM,
McTim wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p
class="MsoNormal">All,
</p>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal">If
domiciling
ICANN in a
nation state
is
problematic,
perhaps ICANN
could buy this
cruise ship as
a HQ:</p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://cruiseship.homestead.com/Cruise-Ship.html"
target="_blank">http://cruiseship.homestead.com/Cruise-Ship.html</a></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal">It
would help
solve the
problem of
internationalisation,
be a permanent
host for ICANN
meetings (2450
berths....saving
hotel costs
for all) and
generate
revenue
intersessionally.
It's a 3-fer,
plus it's a
snip @~ 300
million USD!!</p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<p
class="MsoNormal">--
<br>
Cheers,<br>
<br>
McTim<br>
"A name
indicates what
we seek. An
address
indicates
where it is. A
route
indicates how
we get
there." Jon
Postel</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal">--
</p>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="text-autospace:none"> </p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="text-autospace:none"> <b>Jovan Kurbalija, PhD</b></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="text-autospace:none"> Director, DiploFoundation</p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="text-autospace:none"> <span lang="FR-CH">Rue de Lausanne 56 <b>|
</b>1202
Geneva <b>| </b>Switzerland</span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="text-autospace:none"> <b>Tel.</b> <span lang="FR-CH"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="tel:%2B41%20%280%29%2022%207410435" target="_blank">+41 (0) 22
7410435</a> <b>|
Mobile.</b> <a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:%2B41%20%280%29%20797884226"
target="_blank">+41
(0) 797884226</a></span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="text-autospace:none"> <b>Email: </b><span lang="FR-CH"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:jovank@diplomacy.edu" target="_blank">jovank@diplomacy.edu</a></span>
<b><span
lang="FR-CH">|
Twitter:</span></b><span
lang="FR-CH">
@jovankurbalija</span> </p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="text-autospace:none"> </p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="text-autospace:none"> </p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"
lang="FR-CH">The
latest from
Diplo:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"
lang="FR-CH">
</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""><a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.diplomacy.edu/currently"
target="_blank">today
– this week –
this month</a>
</span><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:red">l</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">
<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.diplomacy.edu/conferences/innovation" target="_blank">Conference
on Innovation
in Diplomacy
(Malta, 19-20
November 2012)</a>
</span><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:red">l</span></b><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">
</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""><a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.diplomacy.edu/courses"
target="_blank">new
online courses</a></span></p>
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