Mathias,<div>I'm very interested in learning with your article. Can you share it in PDF?</div><div>You made a very good point: "States that violate this common obligation engage their international responsibility." That interpretation is valid and flows from International Law as it developed in the last three centuries. My doubt, again, is related to attribution. Do you deal with that in your research? <br>

<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Dec 11, 2012 at 1:38 PM, Matthias C. Kettemann <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:matthias.kettemann@uni-graz.at" target="_blank">matthias.kettemann@uni-graz.at</a>></span> wrote:<br>

<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
  
    
  
  <div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
    Cher Bertrand, dear all, <br>
    <br>
    I'd even go one step further. In a article published in the
    Heidelberg Journal of International Law, I argued that the example
    of Egypt is not only reflective of an emerging international
    principle but even indicative of the crystallization of the
    application of the international customary law norm of
    non-interference to other states' Internet access. Indeed, the
    stability and functionality of the Intenret can by now be clearly
    considered to lie in the common interest. As such, it is protected
    by international law. States that violate this common obligation
    engage their international responsibility.<br>
    <br>
    (I'm happy to share the article on an individual basis if you're
    interested (but it's in German): <i>K</i><i><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">ettemann</span></i><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">,
      Das Internet als internationales Schutzgut:
      Entwicklungsperspek­tiven des Internetvölkerrechts anlässlich des
      Arabischen Frühlings [The Internet als a Global Object of
      Protection: Perspectives on International Internet Law in Light of
      the Arab Spring],</span><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"" lang="DE"> ZaöRV/Heidelberg Journal of Int'l Law 72 (2012),
      469-482</span><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""><u></u><u></u></span>
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    )<br>
    <br>
    Kind regards<br>
    Matthias<br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <div>Am 11.12.2012 18:11, schrieb Bertrand
      de La Chapelle:<br>
    </div><div><div class="h5">
    <blockquote type="cite">Dear Nick, 
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div>Just a brief comment on the issue of "transit traffic". This
        is an interesting component to explore. As I have often said, I
        believe that Egypt acted in reference to an implicit emerging
        international principle of "<b>non-tampering with transit
          traffic</b>" when it blocked access to the Internet during the
        Arab Spring but did not impact the transit traffic serving the
        easter coast of Africa. </div>
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div>Discussing this in more detail would indeed be useful and
        could probably be part of an international/global regime. </div>
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div>Best</div>
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div>Bertrand</div>
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
        <br>
        <div class="gmail_quote">On Sat, Dec 8, 2012 at 12:27 PM, Nick
          Ashton-Hart <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:nashton@ccianet.org" target="_blank">nashton@ccianet.org</a>></span>
          wrote:<br>
          <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
            <div dir="auto">
              <div>Funny, I have been thinking of the Law of the Sea for
                a few weeks as an interesting construct for the legal
                protection of the open flow of data.</div>
              <div><br>
              </div>
              <div>It is true that there's a built environment to the
                Internet - but in maritime law ships are also physical
                and registered with a state. However, the space they
                travel through, beyond the territorial waters limit, is
                open sea and by definition not owned by anyone.</div>
              <div><br>
              </div>
              <div>If we used this construct to protect the flow of
                international data, that might be a workable metaphor.
                The Law of the Sea embodied in UNCLOS is, after all,
                largely simply a distillation of
                internationally-understood principles about maritime law
                that go back to the Roman period. </div>
              <div><br>
              </div>
              <div>We could do much worse than an international
                understanding that data, when transiting any country
                between a source and destination in third countries, was
                legally not actually 'in' the territory or subject to
                the laws of the state it was transiting, but subject
                only to an international regime. <br>
                <br>
                (Bertrand: these ideas are what I was speaking of when I
                told you at Baku I had an idea for your jurisdiction
                project that might have potential).</div>
              <div><br>
              </div>
              <div>FWIW: For those who are about to remind me, I am
                aware that the USG has yet to ratify UNCLOS. It is clear
                that the current Administration is very much in favour
                of doing so, however, as are many members of the
                legislative branch).<br>
                <div>-- </div>
                <div>Regards,</div>
                <div> </div>
                <div>Nick Ashton-Hart</div>
                <div>Geneva Representative</div>
                <div>Computer & Communications Industry Assocation
                  (CCIA)</div>
                <div>Tel: <a href="tel:%2B41%20%2822%29%20534%2099%2045" value="+41225349945" target="_blank">+41 (22) 534 99
                    45</a></div>
                <div>Fax: : <a href="tel:%2B41%20%2822%29%20594-85-44" value="+41225948544" target="_blank">+41 (22)
                    594-85-44</a></div>
                <div>Mobile: <a href="tel:%2B41%2079%20595%205468" value="+41795955468" target="_blank">+41 79 595 5468</a><span> </span></div>
                USA DID: <a href="tel:%2B1%20%28202%29%20640-5430" value="+12026405430" target="_blank">+1 (202) 640-5430</a>
                <div>
                  <br>
                </div>
                <div><b>Need to meet with me? Schedule the time that
                    suits us both here: <a href="http://meetme.so/nashton" target="_blank">http://meetme.so/nashton</a></b></div>
                <div><br>
                </div>
                <div><span>Sent from my one of my handheld thingies,
                    please excuse linguistic mangling.</span></div>
              </div>
              <div>
                <div>
                  <div><br>
                    On 7 Dec 2012, at 16:23, "Dr. Alejandro Pisanty
                    Baruch" <<a href="mailto:apisan@unam.mx" target="_blank">apisan@unam.mx</a>>
                    wrote:<br>
                    <br>
                  </div>
                  <blockquote type="cite">
                    <div>
                      <div style="direction:ltr;font-size:10pt;font-family:Courier New">
                        Jovan,
                        <div><br>
                        </div>
                        <div>thanks for doing a pretty innovative thing
                          here: discussing ideas. Further, bringing a
                          fresh approach and actual expertise. </div>
                        <div><br>
                        </div>
                        <div>My long-standing concern for analogies
                          between Internet governance and the laws of
                          the sea is that the Internet is much more a
                          built environment than the sea (not that the
                          sea is all natural and in fixed form forever,
                          immune to our contamination and our
                          imagintion.) </div>
                        <div><br>
                        </div>
                        <div>So Internet governance refers not only to
                          rules etc. to live on the existing Internet,
                          but also has to be useful as guidance in its
                          expansion and development. To abuse your
                          analogy, it's not only about shipping,
                          fishing, and mining, but also about how to
                          actually make the oceans of tomorrow. </div>
                        <div><br>
                        </div>
                        <div>That brings you to points like: you can use
                          Ostromian theory to understand the tragedy of
                          the commons in fisheries; but can you extend
                          it to Internet governance? What are the
                          limitations? Can you address concerns from
                          liberals to socialists in a new framework
                          without actually changing the salinity or
                          wanting to reverse the flow of the Humboldt
                          current? </div>
                        <div><br>
                        </div>
                        <div>Any thoughts?</div>
                        <div><br>
                        </div>
                        <div>Yours,</div>
                        <div><br>
                        </div>
                        <div>Alejandro Pisanty<br>
                          <div><br>
                            <div style="font-family:Tahoma;font-size:13px">
                              <div style="font-family:Tahoma;font-size:13px"><span><span style="font-family:arial;font-size:small"><font face="Courier New">  
                                    </font></span></span></div>
                              <div style="font-family:Tahoma;font-size:13px"><span><span style="font-family:arial;font-size:small"><font face="Courier New">! !!
                                      !!! !!!!</font></span></span></div>
                              <div style="font-family:Tahoma;font-size:13px"><span><span style="font-family:arial;font-size:small"></span></span><span><span style="font-family:arial;font-size:small"><font face="Courier New">NEW
                                      PHONE NUMBER - NUEVO NÚMERO DE
                                      TELÉFONO</font></span></span></div>
                              <p><span><span style="font-family:arial;font-size:small"></span></span> </p>
                              <p><span><span style="font-family:arial;font-size:small"><font face="Courier New"><a href="tel:%2B52-1-5541444475" value="+5215541444475" target="_blank">+52-1-5541444475</a>
                                      FROM ABROAD </font></span></span></p>
                              <p><span><span style="font-family:arial;font-size:small"><font face="Courier New"><a href="tel:%2B525541444475" value="+525541444475" target="_blank">+525541444475</a>
                                      DESDE MÉXICO </font></span></span></p>
                              <p><span><span style="font-family:arial;font-size:small"><font face="Courier New">SMS <a href="tel:%2B525541444475" value="+525541444475" target="_blank">+525541444475</a>
                                      <br>
                                           Dr. Alejandro Pisanty<br>
                                      UNAM, Av. Universidad 3000, 04510
                                      Mexico DF Mexico<br>
                                      <br>
                                      Blog: <a href="http://pisanty.blogspot.com" target="_blank">http://pisanty.blogspot.com</a><br>
                                      LinkedIn: <a href="http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty" target="_blank">http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty</a><br>
                                      Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn, <a href="http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614" target="_blank">http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614</a><br>
                                      Twitter: <a href="http://twitter.com/apisanty" target="_blank">http://twitter.com/apisanty</a><br>
                                      ---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico,
                                      <a href="http://www.isoc.org" target="_blank">http://www.isoc.org</a><br>
                                      .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  . 
                                      .  .  .  .  . </font></span></span></p>
                            </div>
                          </div>
                          <div style="font-size:16px;font-family:Times New Roman">
                            <hr>
                            <div style="direction:ltr"><font color="#000000" face="Tahoma"><b>Desde:</b>
                                <a href="mailto:governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org" target="_blank">governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org</a>
                                [<a href="mailto:governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org" target="_blank">governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org</a>]
                                en nombre de Jovan Kurbalija [<a href="mailto:jovank@diplomacy.edu" target="_blank">jovank@diplomacy.edu</a>]<br>
                                <b>Enviado el:</b> viernes, 07 de
                                diciembre de 2012 08:37<br>
                                <b>Hasta:</b> <a href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org" target="_blank">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a>;
                                McTim<br>
                                <b>Asunto:</b> Re: [governance]
                                Internetistan, or the Bit Boat... a new
                                approach to Internet governance!<br>
                              </font><br>
                            </div>
                            <div>Well, we have innovation!  With the IGF
                              in Bali, and ICANN on a cruise ship, we
                              may have 'beach or floating governance'.
                              Internet governance could be fun!<br>
                              <div><br>
                                I like the metaphor of the ship since it
                                implies our common destiny. We are all
                                passengers of ICANNia or ITUnia or...<b>?</b>
                                      Metaphors are also useful to
                                remove our tunnel vision and make us
                                think more creatively. In another
                                metaphor, I hope that Internetistan will
                                resist Absurdistan (<a href="http://diplo.smugmug.com/ILLUSTRATIONS/Posters-1/4464706_T4FW6r#%21i=1104113260&k=2GsD8hV&lb=1&s=A" target="_blank">here is the map of
                                  this fast-growing country</a>).
                                <br>
                                <br>
                                But back to the current reality.
                                Unfortunately, the ICANN cruise ship
                                won't solve the problem of
                                internationalisation. 'Open sea' refers
                                only to freedom of navigation. It does
                                not deal with the status of the ship.
                                All relations on the ship are regulated
                                by the national law of the ship's flag.
                                ICANNia has to be registered somewhere.
                                One solution could be a flag of
                                convenience such as Liberia or Panama. 
                                What happens on the ICANNia is regulated
                                by national law, with no major
                                differences from any other land-based
                                entity (company, organisation). Yes,
                                ICANNia can sail in whatever direction
                                it wants to sail, but the decision must
                                be made by the captain according to the
                                rules of the flag's state. Extrapolating
                                from the role of the captain on the
                                ship, the ICANNia would look like
                                military unit. The cruise ship metaphor
                                gets even more interesting  when we
                                consider different classes of cabins,
                                rescue operations, etc.<br>
                                <br>
                                These thoughts have taken me back to
                                Hugo Grotius's book <i>Mare Liberum</i>
                                that established the "open sea" concept
                                four centuries ago as opposed to the
                                idea of a
                                <i>Mare Nostrum</i>. <font color="#cc0000"><b> </b></font>His
                                relevance for our time is sobering. If
                                we replace 'sea' with 'Internet' we
                                could have the next book on the
                                Internet. Grotius was a very interesting
                                personality.<font color="#cc0000"><b> </b></font>
                                Besides being one of the first
                                international lawyers, he was one of the
                                founders of the 'natural law' school of
                                thought.  In addition, he wrote a lot
                                about social contract (before Rousseau,
                                Locke, and others). As a matter of fact,
                                his social contract theory could be
                                applicable to the Internet. </div>
                              <div><br>
                              </div>
                              When it comes to the concept of open sea,
                              Grotius had an interesting interplay with
                              the political masters of his era.  He
                              believed in open sea, but Dutch and
                              British authorities quickly realised the
                              usefulness of his doctrine. They had the
                              biggest fleets and had ambitions to
                              develop trade and colonial empires.
                              Grotius provided them with the necessary
                              doctrine or 'political software'. 
                              However, Grotius always argued that 'open
                              sea' needs rules and principles in order
                              to be 'open'. Although it was
                              counter-intuitive to the leaders of two
                              growing maritime powers, he managed to
                              convince them that it was in their best
                              interest to 'tame' their comparative
                              powers and ensure the sustainability of
                              their empires beyond the 17th century.
                              Everything else has written the history,
                              which proved Grotius right. We can draw
                              many parallels, with the necessary caution
                              that historical analogies should be
                              handled with care.
                              <br>
                              <br>
                              While we are waiting for a new Grotius (or
                              Godot), we should review how we debate
                              Internet governance issues. Grotius was a
                              great scholar who mastered the existing
                              rules before he started changing them. We,
                              on the other hand, use well-defined and
                              developed concepts in a relaxed way. A few
                              examples...<br>
                              <br>
                              As we saw, the frequently used metaphor of
                              the open sea does not translate to an open
                              Internet. In many respects, it can lead in
                              the opposite direction (Internet
                              Nostrum). 
                              <br>
                              <br>
                              Another example is the role of states'
                              responsibility in the Internet era. This
                              is a well-defined concept in international
                              law. If we want states to be responsible
                              for whatever is originating in their
                              territories  (e.g. cyber-attacks,
                              botnets),  we have to give them the tools
                              to ensure their responsibility (mainly
                              state control, regulation, and
                              surveillance). Most writings on state
                              responsibility start from the opposite
                              assumption, i.e. the limited role of the
                              state. With all the creativity and
                              imagination in the world, we still cannot
                              have it both ways. <br>
                              <br>
                              The most topical example of the need for
                              evidence-based policy is the case of the
                              Red Cross name/emblem at ICANN. There are
                              very clear rules for the protection of the
                              Red Cross name/emblem that were adopted
                              some 100 years ago and have been followed,
                              without  reservation, on national and
                              international levels.  ICANN was right in
                              protecting the Red Cross name but made the
                              mistake of putting it together with
                              organisations that do not enjoy the same
                              status (the International Olympic
                              Committee). 
                              <br>
                              <br>
                              Even if we want to change the rules in
                              order to adjust to the specificities of
                              the Internet era (if any), we have first
                              to master them. I see here an important
                              role for academic and civil society
                              communities. If we had advised ICANN to
                              evaluate the Red Cross and IOC submissions
                              separately, we could have avoided a lot of
                              policy confusion and wasted time.
                              <br>
                              <br>
                              The GIGANET might consider the
                              evidence-based policy research as the key
                              theme for the next meeting?<br>
                              <br>
                              Regards, Jovan <br>
                              <br>
                              <br>
                              <div>On 12/6/12 3:31 PM, McTim wrote:<br>
                              </div>
                              <blockquote type="cite">All,
                                <div><br>
                                </div>
                                <div>If domiciling ICANN in a nation
                                  state is problematic, perhaps ICANN
                                  could buy this cruise ship as a HQ:</div>
                                <div><br>
                                </div>
                                <div><a href="http://cruiseship.homestead.com/Cruise-Ship.html" target="_blank">http://cruiseship.homestead.com/Cruise-Ship.html</a></div>
                                <div><br>
                                </div>
                                <div>It would help solve the problem of
                                  internationalisation, be a permanent
                                  host for ICANN meetings (2450
                                  berths....saving hotel costs for all)
                                  and generate revenue intersessionally.
                                   It's a 3-fer, plus it's a snip @~ 300
                                  million USD!!</div>
                                <div><br>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <div><br>
                                  </div>
                                  -- <br>
                                  Cheers,<br>
                                  <br>
                                  McTim<br>
                                  "A name indicates what we seek. An
                                  address indicates where it is. A route
                                  indicates how we get there."  Jon
                                  Postel<br>
                                </div>
                              </blockquote>
                              <br>
                              <div>-- <br>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span> </span></p>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><b><span>Jovan
                                        <span>Kurbalija</span>, PhD</span></b></p>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span>Director,
                                      <span>
                                        DiploFoundation</span></span><span></span></p>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span lang="FR-CH">Rue de Lausanne 56
                                    </span><b><span lang="FR-CH">| </span></b><span lang="FR-CH">1202 Geneva</span><span lang="FR-CH">
                                    </span><b><span lang="FR-CH">|</span></b><b><span lang="FR-CH">
                                      </span></b><span lang="FR-CH">Switzerland</span><span></span></p>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span><b><span>Tel.</span></b><span>
                                      </span><span lang="FR-CH"><a href="tel:%2B41%20%280%29%2022%207410435" value="+41227410435" target="_blank">+41 (0) 22
                                          7410435</a> </span><b><span lang="FR-CH">|
                                        </span></b><b><span lang="FR-CH">Mobile.</span></b></span><span lang="FR-CH"> <a href="tel:%2B41%20%280%29%20797884226" value="+41797884226" target="_blank">+41 (0)
                                        797884226</a></span></p>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><b><span>Email:
                                      </span></b><span lang="FR-CH"><a href="mailto:jovank@diplomacy.edu" target="_blank">jovank@diplomacy.edu</a></span><span> </span><span>
                                    </span><b><span lang="FR-CH">| </span></b><b><span lang="FR-CH">Twitter:</span></b><span lang="FR-CH"> @jovankurbalija</span><span> </span><span></span></p>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span> </span></p>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span> </span></p>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#1f497d" lang="FR-CH">The latest from
                                        Diplo:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#1f497d" lang="FR-CH">
                                    </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Arial" lang="EN-US"><a href="http://www.diplomacy.edu/currently" target="_blank">today – this
                                        week – this month</a>
                                      <b><span style="color:red">l</span></b>
                                      <a href="http://www.diplomacy.edu/conferences/innovation" target="_blank">
                                        Conference on Innovation in
                                        Diplomacy (Malta, 19-20 November
                                        2012)</a> <b>
                                        <span style="color:red">l</span>
                                      </b><a href="http://www.diplomacy.edu/courses" target="_blank">new online
                                        courses</a></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Arial" lang="EN-US"></span></p>
                                </div>
                              </div>
                            </div>
                          </div>
                        </div>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                  </blockquote>
                </div>
              </div>
              <blockquote type="cite">
                <div><span>____________________________________________________________</span>
                  <div><br>
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                </div>
              </blockquote>
            </div>
          </blockquote>
        </div>
        <br>
        <br clear="all">
        <div><br>
        </div>
        -- <br>
        ____________________<br>
        Bertrand de La Chapelle
        <div>Internet & Jurisdiction Project Director, International
          Diplomatic Academy (<a href="http://www.internetjurisdiction.net" target="_blank">www.internetjurisdiction.net</a>)</div>
        <div>Member, ICANN Board of Directors <br>
          Tel : <a href="tel:%2B33%20%280%296%2011%2088%2033%2032" value="+33611883332" target="_blank">+33 (0)6 11 88 33 32</a><br>
          <br>
          "Le plus beau métier des hommes, c'est d'unir les hommes"
          Antoine de Saint Exupéry<br>
          ("there is no greater mission for humans than uniting humans")</div>
        <br>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    </div></div><pre cols="72">-- 

Univ.-Ass. Mag. Dr. Matthias C. Kettemann, LL.M. (Harvard)

Institut für Völkerrecht und Internationale Beziehungen
Karl-Franzens-Universität Graz

Universitätsstraße 15/A4, 8010 Graz, Österreich

T | <a href="tel:%2B43%20316%20380%206711" value="+433163806711" target="_blank">+43 316 380 6711</a> (Büro)
M | <a href="tel:%2B43%20676%20701%207175" value="+436767017175" target="_blank">+43 676 701 7175</a> (mobil)
F | <a href="tel:%2B43%20316%20380%209455" value="+433163809455" target="_blank">+43 316 380 9455</a>
E | <a href="mailto:matthias.kettemann@uni-graz.at" target="_blank">matthias.kettemann@uni-graz.at</a>
Blog | <a href="http://internationallawandtheinternet.blogspot.com" target="_blank">internationallawandtheinternet.blogspot.com</a>


--

Dr. Matthias C. Kettemann, LL.M. (Harvard)

Institute of International Law and International Relations
University of Graz

Universitätsstraße 15/A4, 8010 Graz, Austria

T | <a href="tel:%2B43%20316%20380%206711" value="+433163806711" target="_blank">+43 316 380 6711</a> (office)
M | <a href="tel:%2B43%20676%20701%207175" value="+436767017175" target="_blank">+43 676 701 7175</a> (mobile)
F | <a href="tel:%2B43%20316%20380%209455" value="+433163809455" target="_blank">+43 316 380 9455</a>
E | <a href="mailto:matthias.kettemann@uni-graz.at" target="_blank">matthias.kettemann@uni-graz.at</a>
Blog | <a href="http://internationallawandtheinternet.blogspot.com" target="_blank">internationallawandtheinternet.blogspot.com</a></pre>
  </div>

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<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br>Diego R. Canabarro<div><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="vertical-align:top;text-align:left"><a href="http://lattes.cnpq.br/4980585945314597" target="_blank">http://lattes.cnpq.br/4980585945314597</a></span> </font><br>

<br>--<br>diego.canabarro [at] <a href="http://ufrgs.br" target="_blank">ufrgs.br</a></div><div>diego [at] <a href="http://pubpol.umass.edu" target="_blank">pubpol.umass.edu</a><br>MSN: diegocanabarro [at] <a href="http://gmail.com" target="_blank">gmail.com</a><br>

Skype: diegocanabarro<br>Cell # +55-51-9244-3425 (Brasil) / +1-413-362-0133 (USA)<br>--<br></div><br>
</div>