<div>
Alejandro, as always, it is great to engage in creative discussion
with you. The diversity of experiences on this list (professional,
cultural, personal) may produce something useful. <br>
<br></div>
I share your concern about a very simplified analogy between the
Internet and LOS (Law of the Sea). The question of the 'fixedness'
of the sea is more
complex. While the sea (even with all of its natural changes)
remains more or less the same, our way of using the sea changes. <br><br>In my
previous
message to Nick, I mentioned the example of the Arctic. Last week,
the first liquid gas tanker passed through the Arctic. The opening of
the Arctic northern navigation route will have numerous economic and
geo-political
consequences. Only a few decades ago, the Arctic was an endless icy
space of interest only to scientists. <br><br>Another example is the importance of the oceans as an absorber of C02 in mitigating
climate
changes (absorbs more than 30% of C02). The ocean is also central for geo-engineering projects. We will discover different 'oceans' while the ocean remains the same. <br><br>
As a mental exercise, we might think of the analogy between the TCP/IP and the ocean. Like the ocean TCP/IP has not changes
substantially, but its use has gone beyond even the wildest possible
imagination of its inventors. <br>
<br>To paraphrase Heraclitus, we cannot step into the
same water twice, not because of the water, but because of us. We
change. <br>
<br>
This type of 'useless' exchanges may create useful insights. Thanks
for triggering it. <br>
<br>
As ever, Jovan <br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Dec 7, 2012 at 4:22 PM, Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:apisan@unam.mx" target="_blank">apisan@unam.mx</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<div style="direction:ltr;font-size:10pt;font-family:Courier New">
Jovan,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>thanks for doing a pretty innovative thing here: discussing ideas. Further, bringing a fresh approach and actual expertise. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>My long-standing concern for analogies between Internet governance and the laws of the sea is that the Internet is much more a built environment than the sea (not that the sea is all natural and in fixed form forever, immune to our contamination and our
imagintion.) </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>So Internet governance refers not only to rules etc. to live on the existing Internet, but also has to be useful as guidance in its expansion and development. To abuse your analogy, it's not only about shipping, fishing, and mining, but also about how
to actually make the oceans of tomorrow. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>That brings you to points like: you can use Ostromian theory to understand the tragedy of the commons in fisheries; but can you extend it to Internet governance? What are the limitations? Can you address concerns from liberals to socialists in a new framework
without actually changing the salinity or wanting to reverse the flow of the Humboldt current? </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Any thoughts?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Yours,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Alejandro Pisanty<br>
<div><br>
<div style="font-family:Tahoma;font-size:13px">
<div style="font-family:Tahoma;font-size:13px"><span style="border-collapse:separate;text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;font:medium 'Times New Roman';text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span style="font-family:arial;font-size:small"><font face="Courier New">
</font></span></span></div>
<div style="font-family:Tahoma;font-size:13px"><span style="border-collapse:separate;text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;font:medium 'Times New Roman';text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span style="font-family:arial;font-size:small"><font face="Courier New">!
!! !!! !!!!</font></span></span></div>
<div style="font-family:Tahoma;font-size:13px"><span style="border-collapse:separate;text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;font:medium 'Times New Roman';text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span style="font-family:arial;font-size:small"></span></span><span style="border-collapse:separate;text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;font:medium 'Times New Roman';text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span style="font-family:arial;font-size:small"><font face="Courier New">NEW
PHONE NUMBER - NUEVO NÚMERO DE TELÉFONO</font></span></span></div>
<p><span style="border-collapse:separate;text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;font:medium 'Times New Roman';text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span style="font-family:arial;font-size:small"><font face="Courier New"></font></span></span> </p>
<p><span style="border-collapse:separate;text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;font:medium 'Times New Roman';text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span style="font-family:arial;font-size:small"><font face="Courier New"><a href="tel:%2B52-1-5541444475" value="+5215541444475" target="_blank">+52-1-5541444475</a>
FROM ABROAD </font></span></span></p>
<p><span style="border-collapse:separate;text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;font:medium 'Times New Roman';text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span style="font-family:arial;font-size:small"><font face="Courier New"><a href="tel:%2B525541444475" value="+525541444475" target="_blank">+525541444475</a>
DESDE MÉXICO </font></span></span></p>
<p><span style="border-collapse:separate;text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;font:medium 'Times New Roman';text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span style="font-family:arial;font-size:small"><font face="Courier New">SMS
<a href="tel:%2B525541444475" value="+525541444475" target="_blank">+525541444475</a> <br>
Dr. Alejandro Pisanty<br>
UNAM, Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico<br>
<br>
Blog: <a href="http://pisanty.blogspot.com" target="_blank">http://pisanty.blogspot.com</a><br>
LinkedIn: <a href="http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty" target="_blank">http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty</a><br>
Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn, <a href="http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614" target="_blank">http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614</a><br>
Twitter: <a href="http://twitter.com/apisanty" target="_blank">http://twitter.com/apisanty</a><br>
---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, <a href="http://www.isoc.org" target="_blank">http://www.isoc.org</a><br>
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . </font></span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div style="font-size:16px;font-family:Times New Roman">
<hr>
<div style="direction:ltr"><font color="#000000" face="Tahoma"><b>Desde:</b> <a href="mailto:governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org" target="_blank">governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org</a> [<a href="mailto:governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org" target="_blank">governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org</a>] en nombre de Jovan Kurbalija [<a href="mailto:jovank@diplomacy.edu" target="_blank">jovank@diplomacy.edu</a>]<br>
<b>Enviado el:</b> viernes, 07 de diciembre de 2012 08:37<br>
<b>Hasta:</b> <a href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org" target="_blank">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a>; McTim<br>
<b>Asunto:</b> Re: [governance] Internetistan, or the Bit Boat... a new approach to Internet governance!<br>
</font><br>
</div>
<div></div>
<div>Well, we have innovation! With the IGF in Bali, and ICANN on a cruise ship, we may have 'beach or floating governance'. Internet governance could be fun!<br>
<div><br>
I like the metaphor of the ship since it implies our common destiny. We are all passengers of ICANNia or ITUnia or...<b>?<font color="#cc0000"></font></b> Metaphors are also useful to remove our tunnel vision and make us think more creatively. In another
metaphor, I hope that Internetistan will resist Absurdistan (<a href="http://diplo.smugmug.com/ILLUSTRATIONS/Posters-1/4464706_T4FW6r#%21i=1104113260&k=2GsD8hV&lb=1&s=A" target="_blank">here is the map of this fast-growing country</a>).
<br>
<br>
But back to the current reality. Unfortunately, the ICANN cruise ship won't solve the problem of internationalisation. 'Open sea' refers only to freedom of navigation. It does not deal with the status of the ship. All relations on the ship are regulated by
the national law of the ship's flag. ICANNia has to be registered somewhere. One solution could be a flag of convenience such as Liberia or Panama. What happens on the ICANNia is regulated by national law, with no major differences from any other land-based
entity (company, organisation). Yes, ICANNia can sail in whatever direction it wants to sail, but the decision must be made by the captain according to the rules of the flag's state. Extrapolating from the role of the captain on the ship, the ICANNia would
look like military unit. The cruise ship metaphor gets even more interesting when we consider different classes of cabins, rescue operations, etc.<br>
<br>
These thoughts have taken me back to Hugo Grotius's book <i>Mare Liberum</i> that established the "open sea" concept four centuries ago as opposed to the idea of a
<i>Mare Nostrum</i>. <font color="#cc0000"><b> </b></font>His relevance for our time is sobering. If we replace 'sea' with 'Internet' we could have the next book on the Internet. Grotius was a very interesting personality.<font color="#cc0000"><b> </b></font>
Besides being one of the first international lawyers, he was one of the founders of the 'natural law' school of thought. In addition, he wrote a lot about social contract (before Rousseau, Locke, and others). As a matter of fact, his social contract theory
could be applicable to the Internet. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
When it comes to the concept of open sea, Grotius had an interesting interplay with the political masters of his era. He believed in open sea, but Dutch and British authorities quickly realised the usefulness of his doctrine. They had the biggest fleets and
had ambitions to develop trade and colonial empires. Grotius provided them with the necessary doctrine or 'political software'. However, Grotius always argued that 'open sea' needs rules and principles in order to be 'open'. Although it was counter-intuitive
to the leaders of two growing maritime powers, he managed to convince them that it was in their best interest to 'tame' their comparative powers and ensure the sustainability of their empires beyond the 17th century. Everything else has written the history,
which proved Grotius right. We can draw many parallels, with the necessary caution that historical analogies should be handled with care.
<br>
<br>
While we are waiting for a new Grotius (or Godot), we should review how we debate Internet governance issues. Grotius was a great scholar who mastered the existing rules before he started changing them. We, on the other hand, use well-defined and developed
concepts in a relaxed way. A few examples...<br>
<br>
As we saw, the frequently used metaphor of the open sea does not translate to an open Internet. In many respects, it can lead in the opposite direction (Internet Nostrum).
<br>
<br>
Another example is the role of states' responsibility in the Internet era. This is a well-defined concept in international law. If we want states to be responsible for whatever is originating in their territories (e.g. cyber-attacks, botnets), we have to
give them the tools to ensure their responsibility (mainly state control, regulation, and surveillance). Most writings on state responsibility start from the opposite assumption, i.e. the limited role of the state. With all the creativity and imagination in
the world, we still cannot have it both ways. <br>
<br>
The most topical example of the need for evidence-based policy is the case of the Red Cross name/emblem at ICANN. There are very clear rules for the protection of the Red Cross name/emblem that were adopted some 100 years ago and have been followed, without
reservation, on national and international levels. ICANN was right in protecting the Red Cross name but made the mistake of putting it together with organisations that do not enjoy the same status (the International Olympic Committee).
<br>
<br>
Even if we want to change the rules in order to adjust to the specificities of the Internet era (if any), we have first to master them. I see here an important role for academic and civil society communities. If we had advised ICANN to evaluate the Red Cross
and IOC submissions separately, we could have avoided a lot of policy confusion and wasted time.
<br>
<br>
The GIGANET might consider the evidence-based policy research as the key theme for the next meeting?<br>
<br>
Regards, Jovan <br>
<br>
<br>
<div>On 12/6/12 3:31 PM, McTim wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">All,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>If domiciling ICANN in a nation state is problematic, perhaps ICANN could buy this cruise ship as a HQ:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><a href="http://cruiseship.homestead.com/Cruise-Ship.html" target="_blank">http://cruiseship.homestead.com/Cruise-Ship.html</a></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>It would help solve the problem of internationalisation, be a permanent host for ICANN meetings (2450 berths....saving hotel costs for all) and generate revenue intersessionally. It's a 3-fer, plus it's a snip @~ 300 million USD!!</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div><br>
</div>
-- <br>
Cheers,<br>
<br>
McTim<br>
"A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A route indicates how we get there." Jon Postel<br>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
<div>-- <br>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><b><span>Jovan
<span>Kurbalija</span>, PhD</span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span>Director, <span>
DiploFoundation</span></span><span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span lang="FR-CH">Rue de Lausanne 56
</span><b><span lang="FR-CH">| </span></b><span lang="FR-CH">1202 Geneva</span><span lang="FR-CH">
</span><b><span lang="FR-CH">|</span></b><b><span lang="FR-CH">
</span></b><span lang="FR-CH">Switzerland</span><span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span><b><span>Tel.</span></b><span>
</span><span lang="FR-CH"><a href="tel:%2B41%20%280%29%2022%207410435" value="+41227410435" target="_blank">+41 (0) 22 7410435</a> </span><b><span lang="FR-CH">|
</span></b><b><span lang="FR-CH">Mobile.</span></b></span><span lang="FR-CH"> <a href="tel:%2B41%20%280%29%20797884226" value="+41797884226" target="_blank">+41 (0) 797884226</a></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><b><span>Email:
</span></b><span lang="FR-CH"><a href="mailto:jovank@diplomacy.edu" target="_blank">jovank@diplomacy.edu</a></span><span> </span><span>
</span><b><span lang="FR-CH">| </span></b><b><span lang="FR-CH">Twitter:</span></b><span lang="FR-CH"> @jovankurbalija</span><span> </span><span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#1f497d" lang="FR-CH">The latest from Diplo:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#1f497d" lang="FR-CH">
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Arial" lang="EN-US"><a href="http://www.diplomacy.edu/currently" target="_blank">today – this week – this month</a>
<b><span style="color:red">l</span></b> <a href="http://www.diplomacy.edu/conferences/innovation" target="_blank">
Conference on Innovation in Diplomacy (Malta, 19-20 November 2012)</a> <b>
<span style="color:red">l</span> </b><a href="http://www.diplomacy.edu/courses" target="_blank">new online courses</a></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Arial" lang="EN-US"></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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</blockquote></div><br>