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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">So, you object to the use of the term 'US exceptionalism'! You are on record asserting repeatedly that you think ICANN should continue to be subject to US laws, at least in the areas of regulation of non-profits, competition and FoE......
presumable more...... (in any case an entity is either subject to a jurisdiction, or it is not; there are no choices available for an entity to be subject to some laws and not others).
<br>
<br>
<span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><i><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#1F497D">[Milton L Mueller] One last attempt to salvage an informed, honest discussion of this issue.<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><i><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><i><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#1F497D">I am on record, and have been for years, for favoring the DE-nationalization of ICANN. Which means that I view the US govt the same way I view any other govt,
I want them out. This is not “US exceptionalism” but its opposite. <o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><i><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><i><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#1F497D">On the issue of ICANN’s corporate home, the position is a bit more complex, but if one is interested in real discussion rather than posturing, it is not that hard
to figure out and to debate the merits:<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><![if !supportLists]><b><i><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#1F497D"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">a.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span></i></b><![endif]><b><i><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#1F497D">If ICANN is incorporated as a private entity, it will have to be in one jurisdiction. As jurisdictions go, there is nothing intrinsically worse
about the State of California than other jurisdictions. It may be better than many others. Yes, this means that US jurisdiction has more influence in some types of disputes than others. But special status for the home jurisdiction would be true regardless
of where it is incorporated. So if Parminder or others would like to make a case for another state or nation-state jurisdiction, let them do so. So far, no one has.<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><![if !supportLists]><b><i><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#1F497D"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">b.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span></i></b><![endif]><b><i><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#1F497D">If ICANN is not incorporated as a private nonprofit, but as an international org under international law, there are real concerns that ought
to give any internet freedom advocate pause:<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo1">
<![if !supportLists]><b><i><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#1F497D"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">a.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span></i></b><![endif]><b><i><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#1F497D">International orgs can be _less_ accountable than a private organization. Parminder dismisses this concern by waving his hand and saying that
he wants the international treaty to make sure it is accountable. My response: good luck with that. Give me one real-world example of when that has worked, and you might get some traction in this debate.<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo1">
<![if !supportLists]><b><i><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#1F497D"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">b.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span></i></b><![endif]><b><i><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#1F497D">The current political situation in the world suggests that the negotiation of such a treaty would become an opportunity for states to assert
more control of the internet. This is clear both from the behavior of ICANN’s GAC and from the behavior of many states in the WCIT. Supporters of international law such as Parminder need to explain how they get a treaty and international law that bypasses
these problems. So far, they haven’t.<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo1">
<![if !supportLists]><b><i><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#1F497D"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">c.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span></i></b><![endif]><b><i><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#1F497D">IGP has filed formal comments suggesting the outlines of international treaty principles that would limit ICANN’s powers and help to secure internet
freedom, while retaining its status as a California corp. In other words, Parminder’s charge that we are apologists for the status quo is simply wrong. However, in light of the points made in b) above, we don’t hold out a lot of hope in the current situation
for such a treaty to be ratified. Note the fate of Brazil’s IG principles which despite widespread civil society support cannot make it through the govt. Until there is strong support for the type of principles we put forth in our proposal it would be foolish
to push ICANN into an international treaty negotiation.<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.25in"><b><i><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#1F497D">Happy to engage in any reasonable discussion of these points. Not interested in any tub-thumping about the US and warn others not to
be misled by caricatures and oversimplifications peddled by people with no real ideas. <o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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