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While I cannot speak for Parminder:<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2012/12/06 03:38 PM, McTim wrote:<br>
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cite="mid:CACAaNxhqrZcSWVpjbacg5RgTE0tVSWvt1kkAfmmXh9-5FzvMfA@mail.gmail.com"
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<div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Dec 6, 2012 at 7:15 AM, parminder
<span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:parminder@itforchange.net" target="_blank">parminder@itforchange.net</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
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<snip></div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
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<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"> One needs to do more
than say I/we are for "internationalising ICANN". That would
be merely rhetoric unless one is ready to present (and
engage with) a credible plan and roadmap, which all those,
whom Riaz may call as "US exceptionalists" and I often call
as "US apologists", have never done here. Have they ever? IF
they have, please point me to it. <br>
<br>
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<div>Please see Drake's reply to you the last time we talked
about this. I don't have a link however.</div>
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Drake has also had an evolution on these matters. Politically at
least, I think we can go for Sapere Aude (we make up our own minds,
of course always open to persuasion - especially if the facts
change).<br>
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<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
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<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"> No, it isnt enough to
say that the US should just terminate the ICANN contract
(including the IANA part) . One needs to propose under what
kind of arrangement will the new internationalised ICANN get
institutionalised and subsist. </div>
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<div>Why? Isn't a "free-floating" ICANN the next major step in
the ongoing evolution?</div>
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Why does Parminder have to give a utopian vision for the future
while others are precluded from this requirement? Where is the
balance in that?<br>
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<div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
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<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">One needs at least
framework level indications/ details. Would it still be
headquarter-ed in the US. If so what kind of immunities
would it have from US jurisdiction, and how will they be
ensured?</div>
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<div>Evolution means a series of minor changes, this would be
several steps down the road, and unless ICANN HQ is moved to
the moon (or perhaps a private island [we could call it
"Internetistan"] purchased with new gTLD monies) there will
always be a jurisdictional issue. Of course, if ICANN became
an IGO of the UN system then your requirements might be met,
but none of us ( I think) want an "intergovernmental only"
ICANN.</div>
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There is also disruptive evolution (see preceding comment). However,
I cannot see how the legitimacy issue can be dealt with if even
basic discussions (think Vint Cerf and Nick Gowing at the first IGF
also) cannot be had. If I/we are contrary, then with balance I can
say we are outnumbered, what are the others' excuses?<br>
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<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
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<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"> It is very central to
the internationalisation issue that neither the US executive
nor its courts are able to interfere with ICANN's decisions.
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<div>It is central to your version of "internationalisation",
not to all versions.</div>
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And how exactly is this internationalisation when US domestic
institutions dominate? Of course there is a matter of degree... and
that can be run with... but there may be substantive differences in
this commodious term...<br>
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<div class="gmail_quote">
<div>It would be enough for the moment if we could get everyone
on the list to stop top-posting and trim your mails, that
would be a useful next step!</div>
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-- <br>
Cheers,<br>
<br>
McTim<br>
"A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is.
A route indicates how we get there." Jon Postel<br>
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