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I do not mind the response Milton.<br>
<br>
However, if anything was ad hominem then this is it. There are
substantive challenges to you, not only from me, as well an
explanation of how I locate you politically.<br>
<br>
And as for hurling epithets, then well don't give (as good) unless
you can take it.<br>
<br>
There is a need to discuss and thrash these matters out. But if you
cannot engage substantively, then you are right there is not a point
to it. <br>
<br>
Riaz<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2012/12/06 04:02 PM, Milton L
Mueller wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD228C393@SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu"
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier
New";color:#1F497D">Riaz,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier
New";color:#1F497D">Like Parminder, you’ve overused
this charge of “American exceptionalism,” to the point where
it reflects more on you than on the target. Indeed if you,
like Parminder, apply it to me it shows that you are
completely ignorant of my writings on the subject or that
you are simply hurling a blanket epithet at whoever is
standing around, whenever they disagree. So, no point in
discussing further.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier
New";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org">governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org</a>
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org">mailto:governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Riaz K Tayob<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, December 05, 2012 4:06 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a>; Dominique
Lacroix<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [governance] Hmmmm... Google:
"Internet Freedom!"... (from taxes?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Frankly I am
not sure what kind of institutionalist Milton is. This is
not the Alexander Hamilton, Daniel Rayomond, Richard Ely, E
Pershine Smith, Frederich List and JK Galbraith, who all had
a keen head for facts and history. <br>
<br>
Britain used free trade ideas as a means to maintain its
dominance over other nations. The workshop of the world that
encouraged everyone to liberalise, that free trade (and then
classical economics) was best. And in the Pax (?) Americana,
neoclassical economics (in infinite disguises) and the
Washington Consensus serves the same function. <br>
<br>
Now I have no truck disagreeing with Mueller on economics -
these approaches differ in method as well as context, so
there is room for disagreement. But on the politics of the
matter (sorry Milton, for some Institutionalists if it is
relevant then it must be included in the "calculation")
Milton, with what I surmise from his Institutionalism - not
having read all his work, is no different from American
Exceptionalists on this list. Of course I am aware that in
the American context(where what passes for progressive is
quit different, this may well be the case. It simply cannot
be generalised.<br>
<br>
And in the "competition" through subsidised efforts Europe
builds capabilities - both the tech no-(harware) and -ology
(its people). One of the key elements of benefiting from a
network is that skills can be diffused. Consumption of
technology rich goods is not the same as producing them.
Actually in a reverse sort of way the status quoists
(exceptionalists, Institutionalists of a special type,
neoliberals, etc) seek to maintain the US dominance by
playing to that nations comparative advantage - also in
institutions like ICANN and the posse that goes with it. <br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 2012/12/05 10:25 PM, Dominique
Lacroix wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Le 05/12/12 20:26, Milton L Mueller a
écrit :<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">"Frankly",
development of the TCP/IP protocols were supported by
military research contracts, which had no intention of
supporting a commercial industry. "The Internet"
spread to the general population and succeeded because
of telecommunications liberalization and a free
market.
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18.0pt">Dear
Milton, you seem a little dizzy. You skipped merrily the
NSF action in the 1981-1995 years...<br>
And then, also, the CIA action, via the In-Q-Tel venture
capital firm, launched in 1999.<br>
And also the military orders in the advanced IT field.<br>
Perhaps I forget something. I'm also a bit dizzy...<br>
<br>
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">The
government played an important role in facilitating that
process by privatizing control and paving the way for
competition among ISPs. There is no doubt about that. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18.0pt">Exact.</span>
<span style="font-size:18.0pt">
And not enough: Google should be prosecuted for
dominance abuse.</span><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">While
we are being frank, perhaps you can tell me how
successful European efforts to subsidize search engine
technology to compete with Google has been?
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18.0pt">I assume
you already heard about the networks effect that gives
an advantage to the first big player.<br>
That's exactly why China and other countries protect
their boundaries in order to help their IT industry to
find existence.</span><br>
<br>
<span style="font-size:18.0pt">Do you think that Europe
also ought to close their virtual boundaries?<br>
<br>
@+, Dom</span><br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:5.25pt">Please
frankly, Milton, did internet begin in the US by free
market or by the US Gov action?<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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