<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div>The Tunisian submission is a ringing endorsement of free speech<br><a href="http://news.dot-nxt.com/itu/wcit/c25">http://news.dot-nxt.com/itu/wcit/c25</a></div><div><br>--srs (iPad)</div><div><br>On 04-Dec-2012, at 23:48, Adam Peake <<a href="mailto:ajp@glocom.ac.jp">ajp@glocom.ac.jp</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><span>Media outside Germany reports that a reason (obviously not the only</span><br><span>reason) Google started its public campaign is because the German media</span><br><span>they are at odds with will not cover Google's side of the argument.</span><br><span>Given this is about a debate over new legislation that's a problem</span><br><span>(democracy and all that.) Traditional media it seems is not as free</span><br><span>as we might hope when it comes to its own interests.</span><br><span></span><br><span>Is Google the most dangerous player out there? Go to the .nxt side</span><br><span>and have a look at Russia's proposal for a new Article 3a</span><br><span><<a href="http://news.dot-nxt.com/itu/wcit/c27">http://news.dot-nxt.com/itu/wcit/c27</a>>. It's been debated a bit in</span><br><span>WCIT today, and will continue tomorrow. Offensive that it's even</span><br><span>give 10 minutes floor time.</span><br><span></span><br><span>Yesterday, Dr. Toure made two promises: nothing in WCIT would restrict</span><br><span>freedom of speech, and he intervened in the discussions to seek</span><br><span>support for a proposal that supported including reference in the ITRs</span><br><span>to Article 19 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights (and he was</span><br><span>also concerned about the bad press not including such a reference</span><br><span>might bring down upon the conference and the ITU). Second promise was</span><br><span>nothing in WCIT was about Internet governance, but for some reason he</span><br><span>hasn't yet found it necessary intervene against the Russian proposal</span><br><span>and the other governments offering it support. Hypocrite? We'll see.</span><br><span></span><br><span>At the moment too many people claiming to speak for CS aren't paying</span><br><span>attention to where the immediate problem lies. Google sucks, but it's</span><br><span>not going to screw-up the Internet as we know it.</span><br><span></span><br><span>Adam</span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br><span>On Wed, Dec 5, 2012 at 1:32 AM, michael gurstein <<a href="mailto:gurstein@gmail.com">gurstein@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</span><br><blockquote type="cite"><span>Adam, the issue is not the new/old business models (and I have no particular</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>bias one way or another for old or new enterprises or their business</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>models--and to be clear I sincerely admire and appreciate Google as a</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>company, their products, their highly competent and effective staff and</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>spokespeople, and their overall demeanour).</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>What is important, as the Spiegel article is pointing to, is the way in</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>which Google is using its market strength (and one should say, their overall</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>new media savvy) to attempt to manipulate political processes.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Given their size, wealth, reach and impact this is a very very dangerous</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>slippery slope and given the global scope of Google and similar</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>quasi-monopoly Internet-native enterprises--Facebook, eBay, PayPal, Amazon,</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Flickr, Youtube all come immediately to mind--this is an exceedingly</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>dangerous precedent and one, which at the moment no national (or global)</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>governmental system seems particularly well equipped to deal with (except</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>through the building of equally repugnant and dangerous national Internet</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>firewalls).</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>M</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>-----Original Message-----</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>From: <a href="mailto:apeake@gmail.com">apeake@gmail.com</a> [<a href="mailto:apeake@gmail.com">mailto:apeake@gmail.com</a>] On Behalf Of Adam Peake</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2012 7:46 AM</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>To: <a href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Subject: Re: [governance] More... Google: "Internet Freedom!"... (to do</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>whatever it pleases and serves its business interests?</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>German publishing houses and Google currently in a fight over proposed</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>legislation that would require Google to pay the publishers when they use</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>snippets of text from articles etc in search results.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>New business models/old. Traditional media vs. new. Same in WCIT, ENTO and</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>OTT players. Best not to try and fit the story to one's personal bias.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Adam</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>On Wed, Dec 5, 2012 at 12:24 AM, michael gurstein <<a href="mailto:gurstein@gmail.com">gurstein@gmail.com</a>></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>wrote:</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="http://www.spiegel.de/international/business/google-encourages-users-t">http://www.spiegel.de/international/business/google-encourages-users-t</a></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>o-join-campaign-against-copyright-draft-law-a-870590.htm</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>It is a new type of lobbying power when Google now endeavors to enlist</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>its users in the struggle to defend its own business interests. In the</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>language of the Internet, one could also say that the company is</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>trying to crowdsource its own lobbying efforts. This is a widespread</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>method in the US, where it's known as grassroots lobbying.</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>In doing so, the company is relying on a trick that Germany's Pirate</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>Party has also used to achieve many of its successes: It merely brands</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>a proposal that it's targeting as a threat to the free, open and</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>uncensored Internet.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>The tactic behind this move is obvious. Recently in the US and on a</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>European Union level, a number of bills have failed due to resistance</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>from online campaigns. With its current campaign, Google is seeking to</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>use this to its own benefit -- and is openly playing on politicians'</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>widespread fear of a shitstorm.</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>Legal but Risky Business</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>The vehemence with which Google is pursuing its campaigns is</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>astonishing because it entails considerable risks for the company. The</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>discrepancy between Google's lofty words and its agenda is far too</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>evident: Of course the company is not primarily interested in the</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>freedom of Internet users, but rather in defending its own freedom</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>against any government regulation of its monopoly-like power over the</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>market and public opinion. This raises the question of whether such an</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>approach does more harm than good to its own interests.</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>Well worth reading the whole article.</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>M</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>-----Original Message-----</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>From: michael gurstein [<a href="mailto:gurstein@gmail.com">mailto:gurstein@gmail.com</a>]</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>Sent: Monday, December 03, 2012 2:52 AM</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>To: '<a href="mailto:ciresearchers@vancouvercommunity.net">ciresearchers@vancouvercommunity.net</a>';</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:cracin-canada@vancouvercommunity.net">cracin-canada@vancouvercommunity.net</a></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>Subject: FW: Hmmmm... Google: "Internet Freedom!"... (from taxes?</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="http://delimiter.com.au/2012/11/23/australian-govt-pledges-action-on-g">http://delimiter.com.au/2012/11/23/australian-govt-pledges-action-on-g</a></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>oogle-tax-avoidance/</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>[MG>] <a href="http://tinyurl.com/d9fhmhx">http://tinyurl.com/d9fhmhx</a></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/news/15431664/france-says-google-">http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/news/15431664/france-says-google-</a></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>would-lose-court-case-over-taxes/</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>[MG>] <a href="http://tinyurl.com/c43nfs8">http://tinyurl.com/c43nfs8</a></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="http://en.apa.az/news_google_italy_suspected_of_tax_evasion__183392.ht">http://en.apa.az/news_google_italy_suspected_of_tax_evasion__183392.ht</a></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>ml</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>[MG>] <a href="http://tinyurl.com/cc4ayk2">http://tinyurl.com/cc4ayk2</a></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="http://www.3news.co.nz/Starbucks-Google-Amazon-accused-of-UK-tax-evasi">http://www.3news.co.nz/Starbucks-Google-Amazon-accused-of-UK-tax-evasi</a></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>on/tabid/369/articleID/276457/Default.aspx</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>[MG>] <a href="http://tinyurl.com/dylfaxy">http://tinyurl.com/dylfaxy</a></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="http://tech.slashdot.org/story/12/11/23/0156212/australian-govt-pledge">http://tech.slashdot.org/story/12/11/23/0156212/australian-govt-pledge</a></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>s-action-on-google-tax-evasion</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="http://gurstein.wordpress.com/2012/10/11/the-ituwcit-thinking-about-in">http://gurstein.wordpress.com/2012/10/11/the-ituwcit-thinking-about-in</a></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>ternet-regulatory-policy-from-an-ldc-perspective/</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>[MG>] <a href="http://tinyurl.com/8cw6tux">http://tinyurl.com/8cw6tux</a></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="http://tinyurl.com/choul5g">http://tinyurl.com/choul5g</a></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>____________________________________________________________</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>You received this message as a subscriber on the list:</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> <a href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>To be removed from the list, visit:</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> <a href="http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing">http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing</a></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>For all other list information and functions, see:</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote 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