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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Please frankly, Milton, did internet
begin in the US by free market or by the US Gov action?<br>
<br>
@+, Dom<br>
<br>
<br>
Le 03/12/12 19:29, Milton L Mueller a écrit :<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Just
so you know: competition and liberalization have done more
to extend telecom infrastructure to the largest number of
people than any social equity program. Taxes and subsidies
(at best) pick up the margins/ high cost areas, the really
poor, but the real work is always done by the market. At
worst, taxes and subsidies keep monopoly incumbents in
place, prevent new technologies from emerging, and raise
costs.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">
michael gurstein [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:gurstein@gmail.com">mailto:gurstein@gmail.com</a>]
<br>
<br>
</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I
would be the first one to argue for a transparent, net
neutral, open access, free speech Internet but I'm also
for an inclusive Internet in a decent socially equitable
environment with proper schools, and healthcare, and an
adequate physical and social infrastructure for all, not
just for the rich (or those in rich countries) and that
means that companies, like everyone else has to pay their
fair share.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Greed
is greed and the best way to keep from paying taxes as you
have pointed out, is to make sure that there are no
laws/regulations in place to require you to pay taxes.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">M<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org">governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org</a>
[<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org">mailto:governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Milton L Mueller<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, December 03, 2012 6:36 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a>;
'Dominique Lacroix'<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [governance] Hmmmm... Google:
"Internet Freedom!"... (from taxes?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Suresh,
I think the debates are related. Now it is not just ETNO
and the old telecom incumbents who want to grab a share of
the new wealth being generated by over the top internet
services, it's national governments as well. So what is
new here? Governments want to tax whatever they can for
their own (political) self-interest, while businesses (and
most citizens) want to reduce their taxes as much as
possible. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">What's
interesting is how un-selfconsciously the Dominiques and
Gursteins of the world assume that more taxation = always
better for society. Not a shred of critical perspective on
the governments' demands for more revenue. And as usual,
Gurstein approaches the debate by attaching labels
("Reaganomics") rather than mounting a serious argument. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Do
governments have some kind of right to these revenues? If
so, what is the basis? If so, what is a reasonable rate of
taxation? How are these revenues used? How do they benefit
the internet users who generated them? Might be good for
you all to contemplate the answers to some of those
questions. The implication of your statement is that more
taxation is always better. You don’t have to be a
supply-side economist to understand that taxation can
reach a point of diminishing returns and that it can
destroy economic activity as well as help sustain social
services. Please, a more intelligent perspective on this…
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Some
Internet companies can escape taxes because their
activities aren't linked to territories. Others are
linked to countries and pay full taxes.<span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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