<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div>That won't quite help.  The igf and mag themselves have to become more regional and try to reach out directly to individual stakeholders from governments</div><div><br></div><div>Especially from developing countries, international conference travel is often treated by extremely senior management (sometimes, equivalent to 'political appointee') at different agencies and ministries as a perk that gives them a free foreign tour and shopping trip at their governments expense.  So while several more government officials than you think may have been present at Baku, the only time you might have seen them would be at champagne receptions</div><div><br>--srs (iPad)</div><div><br>On 13-Nov-2012, at 17:14, Anriette Esterhuysen <<a href="mailto:anriette@apc.org">anriette@apc.org</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div>
  
    <meta content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" http-equiv="Content-Type">
  
  
    <font size="+1">Dear all<br>
      <br>
      <font size="+1">I support Jovan's comments about government
        participation very strongly.<br>
        <br>
        <font size="+1">It is not that w<font size="+1">e cannot have
            useful IGF<font size="+1">s without government
              involvement... but for the whole process of dialogue/soft
              power/<font size="+1">building of capacity and unders<font size="+1">tanding and relationships to have positive
                  policy outcomes (and to influence day to day
                  behaviour) we do need them there. And we need more
                  than North American and Europe<font size="+1">an
                    governments and<font size="+1"> the regula<font size="+1">r</font></font></font> handful of deve<font size="+1">loping country reps. In some ways this <font size="+1">imbalance <font size="+1">consolidates
                        <font size="+1">distrust of of multi-stakeholder
                          in<font size="+1">clu<font size="+1">sion in
                              the p<font size="+1">laces where <font size="+1">we most need to build it.<br>
                                  <br>
                                  <font size="+1">I think it can be
                                    addressed.. and one mechanisms is
                                    the MAG. <font size="+1">For
                                      example, I <font size="+1">t<font size="+1">hink that the
                                          Special Advi<font size="+1">sor
                                            <font size="+1">(sho<font size="+1">uld this
                                                person ever by
                                                appointed) should be
                                                from a developing coun<font size="+1">try<font size="+1">.
                                                    Similarly if a chair
                                                    (or co-<font size="+1">chairs</font>)
                                                    is to be appointed
                                                    from among MAG
                                                    members<font size="+1"> <font size="+1">having<font size="+1"> a
                                                          developing
                                                          country person
                                                          as on<font size="+1">e of
                                                          these
                                                          co-chairs
                                                          could <font size="+1">also
                                                          make a huge
                                                          difference<font size="+1"> in
                                                          building the
                                                          MAG's
                                                          legitimacy<font size="+1">
                                                          among
                                                          developing
                                                          country
                                                          governments.</font></font></font>
                                                    <br>
                                <br>
                    <font size="+1"><font size="+1"><font size="+1"><font size="+1"><font size="+1"><font size="+1">Anriette<br>
                                <br>
                              </font></font></font><br>
                  <br>
                
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 13/11/2012 12:55, Jovan Kurbalija
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote cite="mid:50A22719.9040706@diplomacy.edu" type="cite">Thank
      you, Tijani, for a very useful summary.  I have just one
      clarification on my statement. While I agree that governments
      should /support/ the multistakeholder model, my main point is that
      we must ensure more /government participation /in the IGF.
      <br>
      <br>
      In Internet governance, governments are the 'new kids on the
      block', while in other international regimes, it was civil society
      and business that had to carve out a space in existing
      inter-governmental arrangements (e.g. climate change, human
      rights, food security). Therefore, business, civil society, and
      the technical community face the challenge and responsibility of
      ensuring substantive government participation in the IGF.
      <br>
      <br>
      My statement is supported by Diplo's pilot research project on the
      IGF Language Corpus
      <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="http://www.diplomacy.edu/igflanguage/geography"><http://www.diplomacy.edu/igflanguage/geography></a>, which
      shows that only 28% of governments (54 out of 193 UN member
      states) have spoken during the IGF process (preparatory and main
      meetings) in the six meetings from 2006 to 2011; and even this has
      declined over the last few years.
      <br>
      <br>
      Substantive government participation will be the make-or-break
      point for the IGF and other Internet governance multistakeholder
      bodies. How to achieve it? While it won't be easy, it's not an
      impossible task.
      <br>
      <br>
      Regards, Jovan
      <br>
      <br>
      *Jovan Kurbalija, PhD*
      <br>
      <br>
      Director, DiploFoundation
      <br>
      <br>
      Rue de Lausanne 56 *| *1202 Geneva*|***Switzerland
      <br>
      <br>
      *Tel.*+41 (0) 22 7410435 *| **Mobile.*+41 (0) 797884226
      <br>
      <br>
      *Email: *<a href="mailto:jovank@diplomacy.edu">jovank@diplomacy.edu</a>*| **Twitter:*@jovankurbalija
      <br>
      <br>
      *The latest from Diplo:*today – this week – this month
      <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="http://www.diplomacy.edu/currently"><http://www.diplomacy.edu/currently></a> *l* Conference on
      Innovation in Diplomacy (Malta, 19-20 November 2012)
      <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="http://www.diplomacy.edu/conferences/innovation"><http://www.diplomacy.edu/conferences/innovation></a> *l *new
      online courses <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="http://www.diplomacy.edu/courses"><http://www.diplomacy.edu/courses></a>
      <br>
      <br>
      <br>
      <br>
      On 11/12/12 1:12 PM, Tijani BEN JEMAA wrote:
      <br>
      <blockquote type="cite">
        <br>
        Parminder and Marie Georges,
        <br>
        <br>
        The meeting was organized as a round table where everyone take
        the floor for a short time to express him/herself. All was about
        the internet governance but we didn’t take a specific item, and
        discussed it.
        <br>
        <br>
        As for the “Intermediate international standards”, they were
        presented as a third layer between the international general
        principles and the national laws. They described it to be more
        simplified and more acceptable for all the countries so that
        they may be applied by all at the national level. My reaction to
        this concept was that I find it is a good idea to elaborate more
        simple and more precise standards, but I don’t think it will be
        a third layer; the so-called “intermediate standards” can only
        be the same layer as the international general principles since
        they will be international agreements, and their use at the
        national level will still depend on the willing of the
        governments.
        <br>
        <br>
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
        <br>
        <br>
        *Tijani BEN JEMAA*
        <br>
        <br>
        Executive Director
        <br>
        <br>
        Mediterranean Federation of Internet Associations (*FMAI*)
        <br>
        <br>
        *Phone:*   +216 98 330 114
        <br>
        <br>
        *Mobile:*+216 41 649 605
        <br>
        <br>
        *Fax:*         +216 70 825 231
        <br>
        <br>
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
        <br>
        <br>
        *De :*parminder [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:parminder@itforchange.net">mailto:parminder@itforchange.net</a>]
        <br>
        *Envoyé :* dimanche 11 novembre 2012 22:00
        <br>
        *À :* <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a>; <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:tijani.benjemaa@planet.tn">tijani.benjemaa@planet.tn</a>
        <br>
        *Objet :* Re: [governance] Meeting with EC/EP: short report
        <br>
        <br>
        On Saturday 10 November 2012 03:32 AM, <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:tijani.benjemaa@planet.tn">tijani.benjemaa@planet.tn</a>
        <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:tijani.benjemaa@planet.tn"><mailto:tijani.benjemaa@planet.tn></a> wrote:
        <br>
        <br>
            Dear all,
        <br>
        <br>
            Sorry for the late report: No Internet access in the meeting
        rooms.
        <br>
        <br>
            snip
        <br>
        <br>
            The European parliamentarians expressed their support to all
        those
        <br>
            issues, and introduced a concept of intermediate
        international
        <br>
            standards accepted by all and easily applicable, to be
        between the
        <br>
            international general principals such as the human rights
        <br>
            declaration and the national laws.
        <br>
        <br>
        <br>
        Very interested to know what kind of international standards
        they were referring to that fall in between " general principals
        such as the human rights declaration and the national laws". Can
        someone throw some light on the nuances involved here.
        <br>
        <br>
        parminder
        <br>
        <br>
        <br>
        Dioplo Foundation emphasized the importance of the Governments’
        commitment to support the IGF and its multi-stakeholder model
        <br>
        <br>
        The meeting was held in a warm and friendly ambience.
        <br>
        <br>
        Y.J. PARK and Tijani BEN JEMAA
        <br>
        <br>
--------------------------------------------------------------------
        <br>
        Tijani BEN JEMAA
        <br>
        Executive Director
        <br>
        Mediterranean Federation of Internet Associations
        <br>
        Phone: +216 70 825 231
        <br>
        Mobile: +216 98 330 114
        <br>
        Fax: +216 70 825 231
        <br>
--------------------------------------------------------------------
        <br>
        <br>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
        <br>
        <br>
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        <br>
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        <br>
        Version: 2013.0.2793 / Base de données virale: 2624/5889 - Date:
        11/11/2012
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        <br>
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        <br>
        <br>
      </blockquote>
      <br>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">-- 
------------------------------------------------------
anriette esterhuysen <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:anriette@apc.org">anriette@apc.org</a>
executive director, association for progressive communications
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.apc.org">www.apc.org</a>
po box 29755, melville 2109
south africa
tel/fax +27 11 726 1692</pre>
  

</font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><div><span>____________________________________________________________</span><br><span>You received this message as a subscriber on the list:</span><br><span>     <a href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a></span><br><span>To be removed from the list, visit:</span><br><span>     <a href="http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing">http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing</a></span><br><span></span><br><span>For all other list information and functions, see:</span><br><span>     <a href="http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance">http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance</a></span><br><span>To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:</span><br><span>     <a href="http://www.igcaucus.org/">http://www.igcaucus.org/</a></span><br><span></span><br><span>Translate this email: <a href="http://translate.google.com/translate_t">http://translate.google.com/translate_t</a></span><br></div></blockquote></body></html>