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Chaitanya,
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<div>thanks! so, not much of an Internet Governance aspect to this issue left. On to the next one.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Yours,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Alejandro Pisanty<br>
<div><br>
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+525541444475 <br>
Dr. Alejandro Pisanty<br>
UNAM, Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico<br>
<br>
Blog: http://pisanty.blogspot.com<br>
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty<br>
Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn, http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614<br>
Twitter: http://twitter.com/apisanty<br>
---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, http://www.isoc.org<br>
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . </font></span></span></p>
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<hr tabindex="-1">
<div id="divRpF842608" style="direction: ltr; "><font face="Tahoma" size="2" color="#000000"><b>Desde:</b> Chaitanya Dhareshwar [chaitanyabd@gmail.com]<br>
<b>Enviado el:</b> lunes, 22 de octubre de 2012 21:08<br>
<b>Hasta:</b> Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch<br>
<b>CC:</b> governance@lists.igcaucus.org<br>
<b>Asunto:</b> Re: [governance] U.S. - Japan Policy Cooperation Dialogue on the Internet Economy<br>
</font><br>
</div>
<div></div>
<div>
<div>Hi Alex,</div>
<div> </div>
<div>I'm not blaming developing countries (or developed countries or anything else) here - its just that even when these facilities are provided and available the buyers are few. My example CtrlS is on par with Softlayer in most ways - except most importantly
it's location. </div>
<div> </div>
<div>End of the day getting the system up from the investment capital and ensuring it has a workable revenue stream become quite different - and without the revenue stream even the best won't be <em>able to
</em>be there very long. </div>
<div> </div>
<div>-C<br>
<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 12:36 AM, Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch
<span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:apisan@unam.mx" target="_blank">apisan@unam.mx</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; padding-left:1ex; border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204); border-left-width:1px; border-left-style:solid">
<div>
<div style="font-family:Courier New; font-size:10pt; direction:ltr">Chaitanya,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>let me tell you a short story about clouds and grids in the real world. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Several years ago in the consortium for the Internet-2 project in Mexico I (while Academic-CIO at UNAM) got funds for a project, the Metropolitan Supercomputing Delta, which would interconnect three supercomputers at high speed (ours was a Top-500 when
purchased, 1,300 processors.) The key to the design was that the communication between the computers would never be more than an order of magnitude slower than the fiber inside the computers so we would not be working with batch jobs but some level of synched
computing power for big science problems like computerized fluid dynamics, quantum chemistry, etc.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>This would become a National Reference Laboratory and a great place to train people in grids and a stepping stone toward provisioning cloud computing. The project was authorized but the funds were not released for several years (in the meantime I left
that job.) Well, it's 2012 and it's beginning to work because it took years to go across the regulations to do things like dig trenches to cross a sidewalk between a university and the subway to connect to a fiber there and other stuff like that. Inefficiency,
bureaucracy, lack of vision, petty politics, all played a role. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Darned missed opportunity, darned high opportunity cost: we never got to train, hands-on and in critical, bleeding edfe, operations, the several hundred engineers we would have. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Is this the fault of the ugly imperialists out there? Or will we admit that in developing countries we have some laundry of our own to wash before blaming it all on them? </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Why can't we, quoting you, "pull up excellent network speeds and stable datacenters" while "they" can?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Alejandro Pisanty<br>
<div><br>
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</font></span></span></p>
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</font></span></span></p>
<p><span style="text-transform:none; text-indent:0px; letter-spacing:normal; word-spacing:0px; white-space:normal; border-collapse:separate"><span style="font-family:arial; font-size:small"><font face="Courier New">SMS +525541444475
<br>
Dr. Alejandro Pisanty<br>
UNAM, Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico<br>
<br>
Blog: <a href="http://pisanty.blogspot.com" target="_blank">http://pisanty.blogspot.com</a><br>
LinkedIn: <a href="http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty" target="_blank">http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty</a><br>
Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn, <a href="http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614" target="_blank">
http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614</a><br>
Twitter: <a href="http://twitter.com/apisanty" target="_blank">http://twitter.com/apisanty</a><br>
---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, <a href="http://www.isoc.org" target="_blank">http://www.isoc.org</a><br>
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . </font></span></span></p>
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<hr>
<div style="direction:ltr"><font color="#000000" face="Tahoma"><b>Desde:</b> <a href="mailto:governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org" target="_blank">
governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org</a> [<a href="mailto:governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org" target="_blank">governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org</a>] en nombre de Chaitanya Dhareshwar [<a href="mailto:chaitanyabd@gmail.com" target="_blank">chaitanyabd@gmail.com</a>]<br>
<b>Enviado el:</b> lunes, 22 de octubre de 2012 10:35<br>
<b>Hasta:</b> <a href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org" target="_blank">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a>; Jean-Louis FULLSACK<br>
<b>CC:</b> parminder<br>
<b>Asunto:</b> Re: [governance] U.S. - Japan Policy Cooperation Dialogue on the Internet Economy<br>
</font><br>
</div>
<div>
<div class="h5">
<div></div>
<div>
<div>Increasing the digital divide more like - the fastest clouds would be in the most developed countries and thus the entire "cloud computing investment" will go: to the most developed countries.
</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Unless the less developed ones are able to pull up excellent network speeds and stable datacenters.
</div>
<div> </div>
<div>How many people here would choose CtrlS over Softlayer(Theplanet)?</div>
<div> </div>
<div>-C<br>
<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Oct 22, 2012 at 5:56 PM, Jean-Louis FULLSACK <span dir="ltr">
<<a href="mailto:jlfullsack@orange.fr" target="_blank">jlfullsack@orange.fr</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; padding-left:1ex; border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204); border-left-width:1px; border-left-style:solid">
<p> </p>
<p>Isn't this a joke :</p>
<div>
<p> </p>
<p>........For these reasons, industry representatives suggested the following activities:</p>
<p>> · U.S-Japan collaboration for establishing an international framework to support cloud computing.</p>
<p>> · Promoting the use of cloud computing in developing countries and reducing the digital divide.</p>
</div>
<p><br>
<br>
Either these prominent experts from Japan and US never were staying in African countries or they try to make us laughing ! I imagine the worries of Internet users in these countries with cloud based Internet networking in Cameroons or in Senegal (and a lot
of others). For sure : they won't laugh at all !</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Best</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Jean-Louis Fullsack</p>
<p> </p>
<p> <br>
<br>
<br>
</p>
<blockquote style="padding-left:5px; margin-left:5px; border-left-color:rgb(255,0,0); border-left-width:2px; border-left-style:solid">
> Message du 22/10/12 09:44<br>
> De : "parminder" <br>
> A : <a href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org" target="_blank">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a><br>
> Copie à : <br>
> Objet : Re: [governance] U.S. - Japan Policy Cooperation Dialogue on the Internet Economy
<div>
<div><br>
> <br>
><br>
>
<div>On Sunday 21 October 2012 09:50 PM, Fahd A. Batayneh wrote:<br>
></div>
<blockquote>
<div dir="ltr">The United States and Japan held the fourth Director General-level meeting of the U.S.-Japan Policy Cooperation Dialogue on the Internet Economy in Washington, D.C.<br>
> <br>
> <a href="http://www.yumanewsnow.com/index.php/news/latest/1450-u-s-japan-policy-cooperation-dialogue-on-the-internet-economy" target="_blank">
http://www.yumanewsnow.com/index.php/news/latest/1450-u-s-japan-policy-cooperation-dialogue-on-the-internet-economy</a><br>
></div>
</blockquote>
<br>
> From the agreement text:<br>
> <br>
>
<blockquote>Encouraging other countries to develop principles consistent with the “United States-Japan Trade Principles for Information and Communication Technology Services.<br>
></blockquote>
<br>
> SNIP<br>
> <br>
>
<blockquote>........For these reasons, industry representatives suggested the following activities:
<p>> · U.S-Japan collaboration for establishing an international framework to support cloud computing.</p>
<p>> · Promoting the use of cloud computing in developing countries and reducing the digital divide.</p>
<p>> · Considering a range of policy issues, including: privacy, cloud computing security, digital content, interoperability, and portability.</p>
</blockquote>
<br>
> (quotes end)<br>
> <br>
> So rich countries merely go along developing 'global' principles for the Internet, and to 'encourage' other countries to follow / adopt them. Industry reps too want them to develop '<em><strong>international
</strong></em>framework to support cloud computing', to promote use of cloud computing in developing countries, and to consider a range of policy issues....<br>
> <br>
> And when proposals like UN CIRP are made with a view to address these global Internet policy issues at globally democratic spaces, not only these developed countries, most hypocritically, cry foul, so does the industry (here seen actively encouraging developed
countries to do exactly the same kind of work), and also, most disappointingly, the so called global IG civil society.<br>
> <br>
> Perhaps it is time the global IG civil society stop being the B team of developed countries' political and economic interests and really take up the interests of the more marginalised that it is supposed to represent. They need to develop an independent global
IG agenda to be championed by the civil society, which looks like something worth championing by civil society.
<br>
> <br>
> Does anyone here have answers why they remain silent with regard to the active work of rich countries to develop 'global' Internet policy principles, and react so rabidly to any effort at democratising global Internet policy making. Fine if they dont like
the CIRP proposal, come up with something else. But the complicit silence is deafening.
<br>
> <br>
> parminder <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
>
<blockquote>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
> Fahd<br>
></div>
</blockquote>
<br>
><br>
<br>
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