<div>Hi Tapani,</div><div> </div><div>Ref point #2, </div><div> </div><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid" class="gmail_quote">
I would have to agree, however, if your suggesting _their governments_<br>may think like that and are thus likely to resort to censorship unless<br>some easier ways are available, as suggested by your point 4 below.<br></blockquote>
<div><br>Yes that's pretty much what I mean - but "government or other controlling entity". I specifically mention the other controlling entity due to the nature of the internet. </div><div> </div><div>-C</div>
<div> </div><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 12:28 PM, Tapani Tarvainen <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:tapani.tarvainen@effi.org" target="_blank">tapani.tarvainen@effi.org</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid" class="gmail_quote">
<div class="im">On Sep 19 11:29, Chaitanya Dhareshwar (<a href="mailto:chaitanyabd@gmail.com">chaitanyabd@gmail.com</a>) wrote:<br>
<br>
> I think we all agree<br>
><br>
> 1. Freedom of speech is important<br>
<br>
</div>Yes.<br>
<div class="im"><br>
> 2. What is said must be carefully said - if it's likely to hurt the<br>
> sentiments of the masses ("perceived compliance") something should be done<br>
> to prevent that hurt sentiment - strongest being censorship (but what other<br>
> measures could be used? - as Riaz said 'Reasonable' measures)<br>
<br>
</div>I'm not sure I agree with that. It isn't always possible or indeed<br>
even useful to prevent hurting someone's sentiments in the first place,<br>
and moreover attempts to do so can cause much bigger damage in the long term.<br>
People believe in the strangest things and someone's sentiments can be<br>
hurt by more or less anything, notably by any suggestion that some<br>
of their ideas are wrong - and *everybody* has some wrong ideas.<br>
(I'm sure I have, I just don't know which ones.)<br>
<br>
But, I'm rather offended by the word "masses" there.<br>
It's as if the people concerned were somehow subhuman, unable to<br>
think for themselves, undeserving of human rights such as<br>
Freedom of Expression - which includes the right to freely _receive_<br>
information, in order to judge it for themselves.<br>
<br>
If you argue "masses" should not hear about or see something like the<br>
video in question, that they would be better of not knowing about it,<br>
you are in effect saying they should not be granted full human rights<br>
because they're incompetent to handle them.<br>
<br>
I would have to agree, however, if your suggesting _their governments_<br>
may think like that and are thus likely to resort to censorship unless<br>
some easier ways are available, as suggested by your point 4 below.<br>
<br>
Also, with all that said, I appreciate the need to strive for more<br>
courteous ways of arguing over disagreements and would very much like<br>
to seek any non-violent, not-government-enforced means to encourage such.<br>
And "reasonable measures" to reduce hurting people's sentiments<br>
unnecessarily sounds good.<br>
<div class="im"><br>
> 3. Service providers like youtube (google) that have a large reach and huge<br>
> client base should consider possible methods to prevent hate/racist/etc<br>
> messages (measures werent mentioned - we could work on this)<br>
<br>
</div>I could agree with that, although it depends on the details -<br>
I'm not sure we can come up with anything really useful.<br>
<div class="im"><br>
> 4. Governments need to know there are measures (point 2 & 3) that can be<br>
> used without opting for censorship - as Faisal said we need to do our part<br>
> on this or Governments will probably opt for blanket censorship<br>
<br>
</div>Sigh. I must concede you could be right there,even though there's<br>
a strong stench of "realpolitik" in there that makes my stomach turn.<br>
But I'm old enough to know that compromises are sometimes necessary,<br>
and could support something based on that notion.<br>
Again, details are crucial.<br>
<div class="im"><br>
> 5. Violence and censorship are not viable solutions - the damage is just<br>
> too great<br>
<br>
</div>Full agreement here.<br>
<span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><br>
--<br>
Tapani Tarvainen<br>
<br>
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<br></blockquote></div><br>