Trying to figure out which kind of censorship is worst or with more perverse impact - if from government or from private companies - is simply besides the point. Both must be denounced and fought. <br>This kind of differentiation reminds me of the old hierarchy of human rights, whereby some argued that human right X is more important and therefore violations of human right Y should not be addressed until violations of X are fully protected against.<br>
<br>Furthermore, when it comes to free speech in a digital environment completely controlled by private companies (I'm certainly not talking about social networks alone), censorship practices that more often than not go unnoticed (how do you learn about something that isn't there for you to read/see) surely deserve everyone's full attention. A jail full of dissidents is evidence of repression, but where's the evidence of thousands of deleted posts and pictures? Twitter is for the most part alone in trying to make content removal transparent. <br>
<br>Best,<br>Ivar <br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 5:56 PM, Ian Peter <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:ian.peter@ianpeter.com" target="_blank">ian.peter@ianpeter.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<font face="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><span style="font-size:11pt">Perhaps in analysing this it is worth looking at the range of unilateral options that can be pursued by corporations or governments acting without consultation to affect censorship. I am sure my list is not exhaustive, but it includes<br>
<br>
</span></font><ul><li><font face="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><span style="font-size:11pt">national firewalls
</span></font></li><li><font face="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><span style="font-size:11pt">removing content from affected sites by complying corporations
</span></font></li><li><font face="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><span style="font-size:11pt">removing host servers from networks by complying nations or corporations within nations hosting servers
</span></font></li><li><font face="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><span style="font-size:11pt">removing host names by registries or registrars in the nations hosting such registries and registrars
</span></font></li><li><font face="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><span style="font-size:11pt">compliance following court orders within the country of citizenship of an offending individual to remove offending material<br>
</span></font></li></ul><font face="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><span style="font-size:11pt"><br>
<br>
These of course can all be in competing jurisdictions. And I only need to get one of the above acting in my interest in blocking freedom of expression, not all. <br><div class="im">
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<hr align="CENTER" size="3" width="95%"><b>From: </b>Marilia Maciel <<a href="http://mariliamaciel@gmail.com" target="_blank">mariliamaciel@gmail.com</a>><br>
</div><b>Date: </b>Sun, 16 Sep 2012 17:29:44 -0300<br>
<b>To: </b>Ian Peter <<a href="http://ian.peter@ianpeter.com" target="_blank">ian.peter@ianpeter.com</a>><br>
<b>Cc: </b><<a href="http://governance@lists.igcaucus.org" target="_blank">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a>><div class="im"><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [governance] Re: Facebook and the nipplegate: New Yorker temporarily banned<br>
<br></div><div class="im">
I totally agree, Ian. Caught on the mess, it is natural that companies will chose the lowest common denominator to avoid legal problems - after all, they are committed to gain profit, not to fight for civil liberties - and this happens on the disadvantage of FoE. <br>
<br>
Best,<br>
Marília<br>
<br>
On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 5:14 PM, Ian Peter <<a href="http://ian.peter@ianpeter.com" target="_blank">ian.peter@ianpeter.com</a>> wrote:<br>
</div></span></font><blockquote><font face="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><span style="font-size:11pt"><div class="im">Agree with Marilia. The Paypal actions against Wikileaks stays in my mind as another example.<br>
<br>
Yes, unilateral corporate censorship is a growing problem. But in dealing with it we have to point out that the dangers of unilateral government censorship without consultation with other affected jurisdictions presents similar problems. At the very least, we need some universally agreed to guiding principles for such actions – and this would be in the interests of corporations, who must be driven crazy dealing with the whims and political motivations of 180 odd separate nation state entities all demanding separate actions within their jurisdictions on a network which was not designed to be able to affect separate national content variations. <br>
<br>
Ian Peter<br>
<br>
<hr align="CENTER" size="3" width="95%"></div><b>From: </b>Marilia Maciel <<a href="http://mariliamaciel@gmail.com" target="_blank">mariliamaciel@gmail.com</a> <<a href="http://mariliamaciel@gmail.com" target="_blank">http://mariliamaciel@gmail.com</a>> ><br>
<b>Reply-To: </b><<a href="http://governance@lists.igcaucus.org" target="_blank">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a> <<a href="http://governance@lists.igcaucus.org" target="_blank">http://governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a>> >, Marilia Maciel <<a href="http://mariliamaciel@gmail.com" target="_blank">mariliamaciel@gmail.com</a> <<a href="http://mariliamaciel@gmail.com" target="_blank">http://mariliamaciel@gmail.com</a>> ><div class="im">
<br>
<b>Date: </b>Sun, 16 Sep 2012 16:37:19 -0300<br>
</div><b>To: </b>William Drake <<a href="http://william.drake@uzh.ch" target="_blank">william.drake@uzh.ch</a> <<a href="http://william.drake@uzh.ch" target="_blank">http://william.drake@uzh.ch</a>> ><br>
<b>Cc: </b>"<a href="http://governance@lists.igcaucus.org" target="_blank">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a> <<a href="http://governance@lists.igcaucus.org" target="_blank">http://governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a>> " <<a href="http://governance@lists.igcaucus.org" target="_blank">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a> <<a href="http://governance@lists.igcaucus.org" target="_blank">http://governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a>> ><div class="im">
<br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [governance] Re: Facebook and the nipplegate: New Yorker temporarily banned<br>
<br>
<br>
Hi Bill, <br>
<br>
What is more important than what is a highly arguable, and, in my opinion, fruitless debate. Ask any woman who has been engaged in activism on sexual and reproductive rights the importance of this globally omnipresent company's censorship on the word "vagina". <br>
<br>
In addition, in my opinion, private censorship can be much more dangerous exactly because they do not come from imposition (rough power), but from soft power. To organize and resist soft power and to distinguish where "the enemy lies" is much harder. Conservative ideas get embedded in our minds before we have the chance to question them. It is certainly easier to identify that "chinese firewall is bad". <br>
<br>
I hope we learn to split our attention among these important cases of censorship more wisely.<br>
<br>
Marília<br>
<br></div><div class="im">
On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 4:24 PM, William Drake <<a href="http://william.drake@uzh.ch" target="_blank">william.drake@uzh.ch</a> <<a href="http://william.drake@uzh.ch" target="_blank">http://william.drake@uzh.ch</a>> > wrote:<br>
</div></span></font><blockquote><font face="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><span style="font-size:11pt"><div class="im">Maybe because the cases pale in comparison to the types of repression said FoE fighters tend to focus on, and because people can mobilize to redress them if they care enough without having to resort to intergovernmental politics?<br>
<br>
Bill<br>
<br></div><div class="im">
On Sep 16, 2012, at 21:07, Marilia Maciel <<a href="http://mariliamaciel@gmail.com" target="_blank">mariliamaciel@gmail.com</a> <<a href="http://mariliamaciel@gmail.com" target="_blank">http://mariliamaciel@gmail.com</a>> > wrote:<br>
<br>
</div></span></font><blockquote><font face="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><span style="font-size:11pt"><div class="im">More censorship. From Apple, this time. I wonder why FoE fighters do not seem to care as much when censorship comes from the private sector, which has a much more subtle (and efficient) way to affect standards of right, wrong and morality.<br>
<br>
<a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2012/sep/13/naomi-wolf-vagina-apple-itunes-censors" target="_blank">http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2012/sep/13/naomi-wolf-vagina-apple-itunes-censors</a><br>
<br></div><div class="im">
On Tue, Sep 11, 2012 at 5:12 PM, Marilia Maciel <<a href="http://mariliamaciel@gmail.com" target="_blank">mariliamaciel@gmail.com</a> <<a href="http://mariliamaciel@gmail.com" target="_blank">http://mariliamaciel@gmail.com</a>> > wrote:<br>
</div></span></font><div class="im"><blockquote><font face="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><span style="font-size:11pt">A funnier way to continue the discussion about FB policy and their awkward views on nudity.<br>
<br>
<a href="http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/cartoonists/2012/09/nipplegate-why-the-new-yorker-cartoon-department-is-about-to-be-banned-from-facebook.html?currentPage=all" target="_blank">http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/cartoonists/2012/09/nipplegate-why-the-new-yorker-cartoon-department-is-about-to-be-banned-from-facebook.html?currentPage=all</a><br>
<font color="#888888"><br>
<br>
-- <br>
Centro de Tecnologia e Sociedade<br>
FGV Direito Rio<br>
<br>
Center for Technology and Society<br>
Getulio Vargas Foundation<br>
Rio de Janeiro - Brazil<br>
<br>
</font></span></font></blockquote></div><font face="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><span style="font-size:11pt"><div class="im"><br>
<br>
<br>
-- <br>
Centro de Tecnologia e Sociedade<br>
FGV Direito Rio<br>
<br>
Center for Technology and Society<br>
Getulio Vargas Foundation<br>
Rio de Janeiro - Brazil<br>
____________________________________________________________<br>
<br>
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:<br></div>
<a href="http://governance@lists.igcaucus.org" target="_blank">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a> <<a href="http://governance@lists.igcaucus.org" target="_blank">http://governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a>> <br><div class="im">
To be removed from the list, visit:<br>
<a href="http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing" target="_blank">http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing</a><br>
<br>
For all other list information and functions, see:<br>
<a href="http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance" target="_blank">http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance</a><br>
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:<br>
<a href="http://www.igcaucus.org/" target="_blank">http://www.igcaucus.org/</a><br>
<br>
Translate this email: <a href="http://translate.google.com/translate_t" target="_blank">http://translate.google.com/translate_t</a><br>
</div></span></font></blockquote></blockquote><div class="im"><font face="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><span style="font-size:11pt"><br>
<br>
<br>
-- <br>
Centro de Tecnologia e Sociedade<br>
FGV Direito Rio<br>
<br>
Center for Technology and Society<br>
Getulio Vargas Foundation<br>
Rio de Janeiro - Brazil<br>
<br>
<hr align="CENTER" size="3" width="95%"></span></font></div><font><font face="Consolas, Courier New, Courier"><span style="font-size:10pt"><div class="im">____________________________________________________________<br>
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:<br></div>
<a href="http://governance@lists.igcaucus.org" target="_blank">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a> <<a href="http://governance@lists.igcaucus.org" target="_blank">http://governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a>> <br><div class="im">
To be removed from the list, visit:<br>
<a href="http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing" target="_blank">http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing</a><br>
<br>
For all other list information and functions, see:<br>
<a href="http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance" target="_blank">http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance</a><br>
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:<br>
<a href="http://www.igcaucus.org/" target="_blank">http://www.igcaucus.org/</a><br>
<br>
Translate this email: <a href="http://translate.google.com/translate_t" target="_blank">http://translate.google.com/translate_t</a><br>
</div></span></font></font></blockquote><div class="im"><font face="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><span style="font-size:11pt"><br>
<br>
<br>
-- <br>
Centro de Tecnologia e Sociedade<br>
FGV Direito Rio<br>
<br>
Center for Technology and Society<br>
Getulio Vargas Foundation<br>
Rio de Janeiro - Brazil<br>
<br>
</span></font>
</div></div>
<br>____________________________________________________________<br>
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:<br>
<a href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a><br>
To be removed from the list, visit:<br>
<a href="http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing" target="_blank">http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing</a><br>
<br>
For all other list information and functions, see:<br>
<a href="http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance" target="_blank">http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance</a><br>
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:<br>
<a href="http://www.igcaucus.org/" target="_blank">http://www.igcaucus.org/</a><br>
<br>
Translate this email: <a href="http://translate.google.com/translate_t" target="_blank">http://translate.google.com/translate_t</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br>