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Dear Peng Hwa,<br>
<br>
Sorry, didnt respond to this earlier. Your email on another elist
reminded me so.<br>
<br>
</font>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On Sunday 12 August 2012 11:01 PM, Ang
Peng Hwa (Prof) wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:CC4E067C.2DA83%25tphang@ntu.edu.sg"
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); margin-bottom:
0.0001pt; line-height: normal; "><span
class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px;">Dear
Parminder,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); margin-bottom:
0.0001pt; line-height: normal; "><o:p style="font-size: 18px;"> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); margin-bottom:
0.0001pt; line-height: normal; "><span
class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px;">Thank you
for your email. I cannot imagine
ignoring your email. (In fact, the 2011 email shows that
neither you nor
the issue was ever "completely ignored.") As the evidence in
the
email trail and the conversations you agreed we show that
neither you nor the
issue have been ignored. It's on the record.</span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
I dont think we will agree on this. However, the email trail does
not at all show the issues that I had raised have 'not been
ignored', which is the same as 'they have not been addressed'.
Almost none of them have been. (Do you think telling me, well we
should talk about these issues some time f2f amount to addressing
these issues)<br>
<br>
Like:<br>
<br>
you have not told me if you did approach AP UN regional commission
or not, and if not why so, and whether you do intend to approach it
in future?<br>
<br>
No information has been forthcoming about direct questions I asked -
who are the funders, was the participation of some participants
funded, if so, whose and on which criteria (all the the questions
that we regularly ask the UN IGF)<br>
<br>
Who sets up the advisory or steering committee, and on what basis.
You havent even declared the names of the members of this committee
even on my persistent asking. As someone living in AP area, I have
at least a basic right to know such simple things about something
which purports to, in some way, represent me. <br>
<br>
How is your handing over of the ownership of what you call as the
regional IGF to a group of technical community organisations (not
that I have ever been clear what this term means) makes it
'community owned' and thus self legitimising. <br>
<br>
And all those old questions/ issues that I have raised about why
did you not perhaps start with civil society groups that were active
at WSIS, and then build upwards, which would be a really
participative excercise, and as you claim your initiative to be,
*really* civil society led. <br>
<br>
I understand that it is entirely up to you to respond to these
questions / issues or not ... However please do not claim that there
is a 'record' of the fact that you have addressed these issues.<br>
<br>
<br>
snip
<blockquote cite="mid:CC4E067C.2DA83%25tphang@ntu.edu.sg"
type="cite">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm;
margin-left: 36pt; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; line-height:
normal; "><font class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:
18px;" color="#1f497d"> You havent told me why UNESCAP was
not approached when most
other regional IGF involve the regional UN commissions, <o:p></o:p></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); margin-bottom:
0.0001pt; line-height: normal; "><o:p style="font-size: 18px;"> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); margin-bottom:
0.0001pt; line-height: normal; "><span
class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px;">I reacted
to this right away when you told me this the first time in
2010 by emailing you either immediately or very soon after I
got your email. I remember you saying that with the
endorsement
of UNESCAP we could then use the IGF logo. I also remember
asking with astonishment
why we had to get the endorsement of UNESCAP in order to use
the IGF moniker. </span><span class="Apple-style-span"
style="font-size: 18px; ">There was no rule for or against
holding an IGF.</span><span class="Apple-style-span"
style="font-size: 18px; "> </span><span
class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px; ">We spoke
at the APrIGF in Hongkong and I remember asking you who says
so. You could
not give me a good answer. <br>
</span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
This does not correspond to my recollection of our exchange, at
least certainly of what I was saying. I have associated closely
enough the UN IGF processes to know that there is no such rule. I
only said that such connecting to established 'public' regional
instutions gives the initiative the kind of credibility which is
needed for anyone to call it an AP regional IGF. Reminding you again
that in both the existing regional IGFs in developing regions of the
world, Africa and Latin America, the regional UN regional
commissions play an important part. It is you who must really have a
good reason to exclude the UN regional commission in AP region.<br>
<br>
best regards, parminder <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:CC4E067C.2DA83%25tphang@ntu.edu.sg"
type="cite">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); margin-bottom:
0.0001pt; line-height: normal; "><o:p style="font-size: 18px;"> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); margin-bottom:
0.0001pt; line-height: normal; "><span
class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px;">In my mind
therefore, you and I had therefore
come to a stalemate (glass half-empty POV) or an
understanding (glass half-full
POV). That was why I sent you the invite in 2011.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); margin-bottom:
0.0001pt; line-height: normal; "><o:p style="font-size: 18px;"> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); margin-top:
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 36pt; margin-bottom:
0.0001pt; line-height: normal; "><span style="color: rgb(33,
45, 132); font-size: 18px;">Now, before you hasten to think
that I am being
especially non understanding and harsh on you, pl know that
I ask the same
questions from the global IGF (in fact IGC has been doing it
consistently) and
I/ we also did our best to get much of this into the report
of the CSTD WG on
IGF improvements. So, if I dont ask these question vis a vis
an event calling
itself the regional AP IGF, I will be being very
inconsistent (which
unfortunately, some people on this list are being)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); margin-bottom:
0.0001pt; line-height: normal; "><o:p style="font-size: 18px;"> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); margin-bottom:
0.0001pt; line-height: normal; "><span
class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px;">With the
greatest of due respect, I think your
consistency is misplaced. The first two APrIGFs were in
essence startups. For the 2010 meeting, Edmon
was raising funds, organizing logistics, chairing the
programme committee,
designing the website, sending out the publicity, etc. And
Edmon actually had
three overlapping meetings happening in that week. In the
following<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>year,
Edmon certainly helped but most of what
he did the year earlier was handed over to me. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); margin-bottom:
0.0001pt; line-height: normal; "><o:p style="font-size: 18px;"> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); margin-bottom:
0.0001pt; line-height: normal; "><span
class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px;">With any
new effort, it is natural that people are
cautious about how much weight to give to it. The most
obvious group to appeal
to are those directly involved in the more technical matters
of the Internet. It
is the also a point of having a regional meeting—to
publicise Internet
governance to the larger community. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); margin-bottom:
0.0001pt; line-height: normal; "><o:p style="font-size: 18px;"> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); margin-bottom:
0.0001pt; line-height: normal; "><span
class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px;">This year
was a lot better as there were three
different groups—the local organising committee in Tokyo to
handle logistics,
the secretariat handled by Edmon’s dotAsia and the programme
committee that I
chaired. With the workload more spread out, it’s easier to
give more thought to
some of the issues you have raised.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); margin-bottom:
0.0001pt; line-height: normal; "><o:p style="font-size: 18px;"> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); margin-bottom:
0.0001pt; line-height: normal; "><o:p style="font-size: 18px;"> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm;
margin-left: 36pt; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; line-height:
normal; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:
18px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#1f497d">In
this background, your claim that your AP rIGF is
legitimate because
'now' it is under a loose unclear technical community
umbrella group sounds to
me rather revisionist from a civil society point of view. <o:p></o:p></font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); margin-bottom:
0.0001pt; line-height: normal; "><o:p style="font-size: 18px;"> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); margin-bottom:
0.0001pt; line-height: normal; "><span
class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px;">What do
you propose as a solution then?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); margin-bottom:
0.0001pt; line-height: normal; "><o:p style="font-size: 18px;"> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); margin-bottom:
0.0001pt; line-height: normal; "><span
class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px;"><br>
</span></p>
<blockquote style="margin:0 0 0 40px; border:none; padding:0px;">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right:
0cm; margin-left: 36pt; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;
text-indent: -36pt; line-height: normal; "><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px; "><font
class="Apple-style-span" color="#1f497d">>1.<!--[endif]-->This
year, there was a call for panels and some
of the panelists were funded. The next APrIGF will have
a similar CFP.<o:p></o:p></font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;
line-height: normal; "><span class="Apple-style-span"
style="font-size: 18px; "><font class="Apple-style-span"
color="#1f497d">No, that is not enough. There has to a
representative, participative, transparent process from
the very start. I am
most surprised that you are still not committing to one.
You are just saying
there was a call for proposals, and next year too there
will be one. Also, I
want information of which panels were funded and on what
creteria.</font><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; line-height: normal; "><o:p
style="font-size: 18px;"> </o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); margin-bottom:
0.0001pt; line-height: normal; "><span
class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px;">Who can
disagree with representative
participation and a transparent process? <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); margin-bottom:
0.0001pt; line-height: normal; "><o:p style="font-size: 18px;"> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); margin-bottom:
0.0001pt; line-height: normal; "><span
class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px;">Fwiw, the
organisers of the 2012 meeting will
have meeting to discuss ways to improve the APrIGF. Izumi
has been at the forefront in sending the group a wish list
of things that the next committee should look into. <o:p></o:p></span><span
class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px; ">You are
welcome to send us your wish list.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); margin-bottom:
0.0001pt; line-height: normal; "><span
class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px;"><br>
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); margin-bottom:
0.0001pt; line-height: normal; "><span
class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px;">Regards,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); margin-bottom:
0.0001pt; line-height: normal; "><span
class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px;">Peng Hwa</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); margin-bottom:
0.0001pt; line-height: normal; "><span
class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px;"><br>
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); margin-bottom:
0.0001pt; line-height: normal; "><span
class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px;">PS. For
those who want to know more about AP*, the APStar.org
website gives more details about the group. AP* is a loose
grouping of mostly technical associations in the Asia
Pacific region involved with the Internet, a sort of
association of associations. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); margin-bottom:
0.0001pt; line-height: normal; "><span
class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px;"><br>
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); margin-bottom:
0.0001pt; line-height: normal; "><o:p style="font-size: 18px;"> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); margin-bottom:
0.0001pt; line-height: normal; "><o:p style="font-size: 18px;"> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); "><o:p
style="font-size: 18px;"> </o:p></p>
<!--EndFragment--></div>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); "><span class="Apple-style-span"
style="font-size: 18px;"><br>
</span></div>
<span id="OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); ">
<div style="text-align: left; color: black; border-bottom-width:
medium; border-bottom-style: none; border-bottom-color:
initial; border-left-width: medium; border-left-style: none;
border-left-color: initial; padding-bottom: 0in; padding-left:
0in; padding-right: 0in; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223);
border-top-width: 1pt; border-top-style: solid;
border-right-width: medium; border-right-style: none;
border-right-color: initial; padding-top: 3pt; "><span
class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px;"><span
style="font-weight:bold">From: </span> Parminder Singh
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:parminder@ITforChange.net">parminder@ITforChange.net</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Date: </span> Thursday,
August 2, 2012 4:18 PM<br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">To: </span> "<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a>"
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a>>,
AngPH <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:tphang@ntu.edu.sg">tphang@ntu.edu.sg</a>>,
Izumi Aizu <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:iza@anr.org">iza@anr.org</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Subject: </span> Re:
[governance] Completely Ignored [was East Africa IGF - day
2, discussion of ITRs]<br>
</span></div>
<div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px;"><br>
</span></div>
<blockquote id="MAC_OUTLOOK_ATTRIBUTION_BLOCKQUOTE"
style="border-left-color: rgb(181, 196, 223);
border-left-width: 5px; border-left-style: solid; padding-top:
0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left:
5px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;
margin-left: 5px; ">
<div>
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#333399"><font
style="font-size: 18px;">Peng Hwa (and Izumi)<br>
<br>
</font>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><span
class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px;">On
Tuesday 24 July 2012 05:17 PM, Ang Peng Hwa (Prof)
wrote:<br>
</span></div>
<blockquote cite="mid:CC34A5B8.2B5CC%25tphang@ntu.edu.sg"
type="cite">
<div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:
18px;">Parminder,</span></div>
<div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:
18px;"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:
18px;">Back from a meeting between the emails.</span></div>
<div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:
18px;"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:
18px;">First things first. Thank you for your email.
I cannot imagine ignoring your email. (In fact, the
2011 email shows that neither you nor the issue was
ever "completely ignored.")</span></div>
</blockquote>
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px;"><br>
<font>It is not about ignoring me. It is about the
issues that not only were ignored, they are still
being ignored. You still havent answered, any of the
questions that I raised in my 2010 conversations, 2011
email or even in the present exchange. You havent told
me why UNESCAP was not approached when most other
regional IGF involve the regional UN commissions, you
havent told me why efforts were not made to connect to
non-technical community NGOs before preparation begun,
including those persons/ groups who were involved with
WSIS Asia Pacific caucus for instance, why almost no
government seems to be involved, i have no clear
information on who were on the organising committee
(simple information, isnt it, why not share it), who
set up the organising committee, who all funded the
event, how many and which all participants to the
event were funded and on what criteria etc......<br>
<br>
Now, before you hasten to think that I am being
especially non understanding and harsh on you, pl know
that I ask the same questions from the global IGF (in
fact IGC has been doing it consistently) and I/ we
also did our best to get much of this into the report
of the CSTD WG on IGF improvements. So, if I dont ask
these question vis a vis an event calling itself the
regional AP IGF, I will be being very inconsistent
(which unfortunately, some people on this list are
being)<br>
</font><br>
</span>
<blockquote cite="mid:CC34A5B8.2B5CC%25tphang@ntu.edu.sg"
type="cite">
<div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:
18px;"> I like to think that I would have answered
at least some of your suggestions but I honestly
cannot recall it now.</span></div>
</blockquote>
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px;"><br>
<font>No, you did not. The proof of it is, you still
havent even when I ask again.
</font><br>
</span>
<blockquote cite="mid:CC34A5B8.2B5CC%25tphang@ntu.edu.sg"
type="cite">
<div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:
18px;"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:
18px;">Be that as it may, I may have felt that you
were "mollified" (aka agree to disagree) because at
that time, you had questioned the legitimacy of the
APrIGF. I had said that the legitimacy argument
would in fact play into the hands of those who
question the legitimacy of civil society, an
argument that I thought you accepted. Hence the
friendly invite for 2011.</span></div>
<div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:
18px;"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:
18px;">I'm wondering if the debate is now moot
because:</span></div>
<ol>
<li><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:
18px;">The IGF Secretariat has now come up with
the guidelines for what a regional or national IGF
should contain. (The Secretariat itself clearly
has no problems with others using the IGF to
indicate their national or regional IGF is part of
the UN-level IGF.) This is a rather low bar and
the APrIGF meets it. </span></li>
</ol>
</blockquote>
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px;"><br>
<font>It is not enough if they set the </font><font>bar
</font><font>low , it is not that civil society is just
sitting to receive with fulsome gratitude whatever
the IGF secretariat does or communicates (no, that is
not how we have worked traditionally) .</font><font>
We make and let know our positions. The question is,
are you fine with the low bar set for regional IGFs?
If so, why did we fight so much for raising the bar
for the global IGF through our engagements with the WG
on IGF improvements, Will be very grateful for an
answer, especially from Izumi who was on the WG. </font><br>
<br>
<br>
</span>
<blockquote cite="mid:CC34A5B8.2B5CC%25tphang@ntu.edu.sg"
type="cite">
<ol>
<li><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:
18px;">The APrIGF is now under AP*. Some
processes have been put in place for approval of
the venue, chair of the PC, etc.
</span></li>
</ol>
</blockquote>
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px;"><font><br>
I dont think many people here know what AP* is, and
therefore you will have to elaborate. I see it as a
group largely</font><font> of</font><font>
organisations that tend to see themselves as the
technical community, right! So, perhaps, the
equivalent of what you are declaring as the grounds of
legitimacy for the so call AP IGF will be someone
saying global IGF is now very fine and immune from
criticism because' it is now under ISOC'..... I dont
know whether you are aware of it or not, but some such
proposal, to put IGF under the ISOCs, were mooted
during the IGF, but most civil society strongly
opposed it.
<br>
<br>
In this background, your claim that your AP rIGF is
legitimate because 'now' it is under a loose unclear
technical community umbrella group sounds to me rather
revisionist from a civil society point of view.
</font><br>
<br>
</span>
<blockquote cite="mid:CC34A5B8.2B5CC%25tphang@ntu.edu.sg"
type="cite">
<ol>
<li><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:
18px;">This year, there was a call for panels and
some of the panelists were funded. The next APrIGF
will have a similar CFP.
</span></li>
</ol>
</blockquote>
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px;"><br>
<font>No, that is not enough. There has to be a
representative, participative, transparent process
from the very start. I am most surprised that you are
still not committing to one. You are just saying there
was a call for proposals, and next year too there will
be one. Also, I want information of which panels were
funded and on what creteria.
<br>
<br>
thanks for your engagement, <br>
<br>
parminder </font><br>
</span>
<blockquote cite="mid:CC34A5B8.2B5CC%25tphang@ntu.edu.sg"
type="cite">
<div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:
18px;">You can expect the APrIGF to be more
transparent in the future. And of course your
suggestions to improve its governance and processes
are always welcome.</span></div>
<div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:
18px;"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:
18px;">Regards,</span></div>
<div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:
18px;">Peng Hwa</span></div>
<div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:
18px;"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:
18px;"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:
18px;"><br>
</span></div>
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px;"><span
id="OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION">
<div style="text-align: left; color: black;
border-bottom-width: medium; border-bottom-style:
none; border-bottom-color: initial;
border-left-width: medium; border-left-style:
none; border-left-color: initial; padding-bottom:
0in; padding-left: 0in; padding-right: 0in;
border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223);
border-top-width: 1pt; border-top-style: solid;
border-right-width: medium; border-right-style:
none; border-right-color: initial; padding-top:
3pt; "><span style="font-weight:bold">From: </span>Parminder
Singh <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:parminder@ITforChange.net">parminder@ITforChange.net</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Date: </span>Tuesday,
July 24, 2012 1:30 PM<br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">To: </span>"<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a>"
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a>>,
AngPH <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:tphang@ntu.edu.sg">tphang@ntu.edu.sg</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Subject: </span>Re:
[governance] Completely Ignored [was East Africa
IGF - day 2, discussion of ITRs]<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<blockquote id="MAC_OUTLOOK_ATTRIBUTION_BLOCKQUOTE"
style="BORDER-LEFT: #b5c4df 5 solid; PADDING:0 0 0
5; MARGIN:0 0 0 5;">
<div>
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#333399">
<pre wrap=""><big><big>P<small>eng Hwa,
You have mentioned in your email how I had raised a number of issues when you had first organised the so-called APrIGF in Hongkong in 2010. Indeed, after a few exchanges IT for Change agreed to be present at the meeting on the condition that we would basically say the same things at the meeting about its legitimacy etc as we had been arguing. You kindly consented and we did attend the meeting and made our point.
However, what surprises me is your conclusion that we were somehow mollified by our conversations with you at Hongkong and then at Vilnius. There is no question of such mollification</small> without the issues we raised be<small>ing addressed, and as is evident, they never were.
What is even more surprising are your comments, quote below from your email of the last week, about the second so called APrIGF in Singapore.
</small></big></big>
"When I organized the meeting in Singapore, you did not raise any objection." and, again later in the email " In Singapore, you did not raise any objections. And I thought that's where the issue stood." (Peng Hwa)
<big><big><small>
It has obviously entirely skipped your memory, but when you wrote to me inviting me for the Singapore meeting, I wrote a detailed email to you which not only raised the same issues that I had raised earlier, but also suggested, in considerable detail, what in our opinion is the right way to go about organising the APrIGF (so much so for all this talk from various parties that I should be constructive etc, which I must say is a more than a bit patronising). I reproduce below my email to you before Singapore. I would not make your response public which is up to you to decide whatever to do about. I however must say that I had even at that time asked for your permission to make my email public but was persuaded not to, pending further f2f discussions etc which never happened.
parminder
<b>My email in response to an invitation to attend the Singapore so called APrIGF is below. </b></small></big></big>On 5/3/11 12:36 AM, "Parminder Singh" <<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="parminder@ITforChange.net">parminder@ITforChange.net</a>> wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote> <font color="#333333"> Dear Peng
Hwa,<br>
<br>
It is always nice to hear from you, and
hope you are doing well!<br>
<br>
Thank you for inviting me to chair a
session during the proposed meeting. I do
quite appreciate the utmost sincerely and
serious application that you bring to your
efforts to keep a dialogue on Internet
Governance alive in the Asia Pacific
region. However, for the reason mentioned
below in some detail , I am constrained to
decline your kind invitation.
<br>
<br>
As mentioned in our conversations before
the similar meeting last year, I do not
think it legitimate to call any meeting as
a regional IGF without a minimum standard
of broad participation and 'ownership',
especially of public interest actors. Last
year I was told that it was the first time
and the meeting has been planned in haste,
and that things should improve for
subsequent meetings. However, in this
invite for the 2011 meeting I see no
indication about who all are on the
organizing committee, how was the agenda
and speaker selection arrived at, etc. <br>
<br>
Apart from the basic legitimacy question,
holding of such meetings under the banner
of national/regional IGFs has a negative
reverse impact on the global IGF to make
it look like it too was just another
annual conference on IG, which I do not
think it is (though some people do) . I
think that the global IGF is, or at least
is supposed to be, an innovative
experiment in deliberative and
participatory democracy for global
governance of the Internet. At least some
basic features of the global IGF suggests
the possibility that the global IGF can,
if we have the political will for it,
hopefully evolve to be something close to
this ideal. These features are; strong
mooring in a public institution - or a set
of them, a good amount of public funding
(though not at all of the kind, and
extent, that can be considered
satisfactory), a multistakeholder group
deciding the agenda of the meeting and the
speakers through an intensively
consultative process, and such.<br>
<br>
While some of us are struggling to ensure
that the annual IGF has an even greater
public and democratic character,
organization of completely private
meetings opaquely planned and executed,
with unknown sponsors and key drivers,
like the proposed meeting being called the
Asia Pacific Regional IGF, is to us a
retrograde step. It is for this reason
that we cannot associate with it, and in
fact oppose it to be held under its
proposed name.<br>
<br>
I do understand how difficult it is to be
innovative and entrepreneurial in such
matters and actually pull an event like
this together; and in relation how facile
it may be considered to criticize such
almost valiant efforts. I must therefore
engage constructively and suggest what
could alternatively have been done and
would, in my opinion, have been the better
option. Though I cannot suggest funding
options right away, it is possible that
the Asia Pacific UN regional commission
(ESCAP) could have shown some interest in
this event. Was it even approached at all?
Funding from governments of some countries
could also been explored apart from
sourcing 'monopoly funds' (akin to
Internet tax) that are collected by
registrars and such registries that use
the commons resources of geo-political
expressions like ctlds. In any case, wider
participation of public interest actors is
always possible to seek. There was this
Asia Pacific Civil Society Caucus at WSIS,
which is now defunct but one can recollect
some key names of those - individuals and
organizations - who participated actively.
Then there are Civil Society Internet
Governance Caucus members from Asia
Pacific quite active in the Internet
Governance Caucus. There are also MAG
members from this region. I have no
indication that these actors had any role
at all in shaping an activity which is
being called the Asia Pacific Regional
IGF.
<br>
<br>
I must once again mention that I hold you
and your sincere efforts towards a
continued dialogue on Internet governance
in our region in great esteem. And this
statement is made most sincerely because I
have known you and your work closely. The
proposed meeting should simply have been
named something like 'an regional dialogue
on IG' or some such thing rather than a
regional IGF. In this regard we have the
example of EURODIG. I do hope that such a
change can still be made so that it leaves
no room for confusion regarding the nature
of the proposed meeting. <br>
<br>
We should do nothing to contribute to
promoting privatized realms of governance
for such an important social, economic,
political and cultural phenomenon as the
Internet. We fear that through privatized
governance models for the Internet, what
is really being done is to challenge the
very essentials of democratic thought and
ideals for all aspects of our social life.<br>
<br>
I look forward to hear your response to
the issues that I have raised, and discuss
them at as much length as may be required.
However, meanwhile, I may have to take the
contents of this letter to the public
domain, since it really is not a response
to you individually but a much larger
engagement with issues concerning
democracy and public interest,
specifically about the nature of
institutions that can serve these ideals.
<br>
<br>
With respect, and the very best regards<br>
<br>
Parminder <br>
<br>
On Thursday 28 April 2011 06:38 AM, Ang
Peng Hwa (Prof) wrote: <br>
</font>
<blockquote><font color="#333333"> APrIGF
<br>
Dear Parminder,<br>
<br>
Greetings from Singapore!<br>
<br>
I append below the draft programme for
the coming APrIGF in Singapore. This
will be jus before the ICANN meeting.<br>
<br>
<br>
</font>
<ol>
<li><font color="#333333">Can you make
it?
</font></li>
<li><font color="#333333">Can you
participate in a panel or chair one?
We have the plenaries as well as the
workshops.
</font></li>
<li><font color="#333333"><br>
</font></li>
</ol>
<font color="#333333"><br>
Regards,<br>
Peng Hwa</font></blockquote>
</blockquote>
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