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I am reading up on this again, but would defer to the likes of
Auerbach, and note the concerns of others on the viability of ITU
approach (noting that the <u>rumours</u> in Geneva at the time of
the new SG were that if he pursued the CIR thing they would make his
term look like a bad one), as well as issues for reform of GAC and
IANA (as raised by Parminder). <br>
<br>
I am of the predisposition, to use a Rumsfeld term, for full
spectrum engagement, of course not an any means necessary one as
resources are limited. <br>
<br>
So varied proposals need to be supported that implicitly or
explicitly support issues that increase legitimacy. Partnerships
with the likes of progressives in these fora need to be built, but I
would advise caution as some reformists are merely minimal
accomodationists instead of pursuing something transformatory.<br>
<br>
Further, I would love to hear what China is planning nationally
(have cash and capability - perhaps not everything, but emulation is
a possibility) as well as on Enhanced Cooperation.<br>
<br>
It would be great to see a paper on how the CIR and root and
relationships have evolved (as a response to or inspite of)
legitimacy concerns as this would give a spread of the issues.<br>
<br>
What proposals are you working on "on the inside" and what do you
think are useful avenues?<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2012/08/10 04:04 PM, Dr. Alejandro
Pisanty Baruch wrote:<br>
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<div style="direction: ltr;font-family: Courier New;color:
#000000;font-size: 10pt;"> Riaz,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>since this never ends let's kick start it in a direction
that may give grounds to a discussion that defuses
adjectivation and talks about the technology.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Do you believe that the OSI network model, the ETNO
proposal to the ITU for WCIT, or some version of what never
gets finally defined as NGN can better accomodate Third World
concerns than the presently evolving architecture of the
Internet?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Nobody is taking away from you the exploration of
legitimacy or any other aspect of the Internet. The discussion
reaches a cul de sac when it arrives at a point where it is
purely political: "remove the US's asymmetric role in the
control of updates to the root zone of the DNS." Many wish so,
in different degrees and forms, though this list has explored
virtually all and any of the imaginable alternatives and
failed to find one that's so obvioulsy better than today's
evolving situation. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>So maybe indeed the model cannnot accomodate that kind of
change. Do other models open the door, how, at what balance of
cost, benefit, and risk?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Yours,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Alejandro Pisanty<br>
<div><br>
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UNAM, Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico<br>
<br>
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<div id="divRpF934098" style="direction: ltr; "><font
color="#000000" face="Tahoma" size="2"><b>Desde:</b> <a
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org">governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org</a>
[<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org">governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org</a>]
en nombre de Riaz K Tayob [<a
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:riaz.tayob@gmail.com">riaz.tayob@gmail.com</a>]<br>
<b>Enviado el:</b> viernes, 10 de agosto de 2012 08:16<br>
<b>Hasta:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a>;
William Drake<br>
<b>Asunto:</b> Re: [governance] India's communications
minister - root server misunderstanding (still...)<br>
</font><br>
</div>
<div>Bill.<br>
<br>
I will avoid the issue of how your views are
characterised. That said... <br>
<br>
I do not think Parminder represents the entire Third
World. Nor has be made claims to that effect - but it is a
particular concern coming from some third world people and
states.<br>
<br>
What is the problem with the references Parminder has
provided?<br>
<br>
More important for me, is democracy or consensus the only
route to a legitimate viewpoint? <br>
<br>
If we reason by way of popularity alone, then it is clear
why we were led into the "predictable" financial crisis
this that led to the financial crisis where reason and
thought was a popularity contest (very lucrative if one is
a neoliberal apparently) and everyone else was a Dr Doom.
Robust engagement is cool, but not if reason is hostage...
<br>
<br>
Riaz<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2012/08/10 03:04 PM,
William Drake wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<div>On Aug 10, 2012, at 2:37 PM, parminder wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<blockquote type="cite"><span class="Apple-style-span"
style="border-collapse:separate;
font-family:Arial; font-style:normal;
font-variant:normal; font-weight:normal;
letter-spacing:normal; line-height:normal;
orphans:2; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none;
white-space:normal; widows:2; word-spacing:0px;
font-size:medium">When someone says that anyone
wanting a change has to "outline said plausible
alternative and why its risks/costs are less than
the certainties/benefits of the SQ", and carries
on at length to show - as most of your email does
- that there isnt any clear demand for change, and
when that someone is not an appointed neutral
referee or something but a political player in the
arena, then that person's politics is legitimately
called as status quoist. I stick to my position.</span></blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<div>Which willfully misrepresents my clearly stated
position, </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>On Aug 10, 2012, at 9:18 AM, William Drake wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<blockquote type="cite"><span class="Apple-style-span"
style="border-collapse:separate;
font-family:Arial; font-style:normal;
font-variant:normal; font-weight:normal;
letter-spacing:normal; line-height:normal;
orphans:2; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none;
white-space:normal; widows:2; word-spacing:0px;
font-size:medium">While, like many in CS and the
TC, I support the concept of decoupling root
change authorizations from sole USG responsibility
if and when a plausibly reliable alternative can
be identified, realistically it has to recognized
that this would need to be an evolutionary process
that plays out over some years, with dialogue and
collective learning rather than posturing and
demanding as the lead edge.</span></blockquote>
</div>
<div><span class="Apple-style-span"
style="border-collapse:separate; font-family:Arial;
font-style:normal; font-variant:normal;
font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal;
line-height:normal; orphans:2; text-indent:0px;
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word-spacing:0px; font-size:medium"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span class="Apple-style-span"
style="border-collapse:separate; font-family:Arial;
font-style:normal; font-variant:normal;
font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal;
line-height:normal; orphans:2; text-indent:0px;
text-transform:none; white-space:normal; widows:2;
word-spacing:0px; font-size:medium">So I guess we're
done. You can now get back to sending dozens of
long multiscreen messages claiming to be the tribune
of the whole global South which all is just having a
collective brain embolism over zone file signing and
berating anyone who dares to ask for evidence. It's
a proven winner with respect to building the caucus'
internal consensus and external influence.</span></div>
<div><span class="Apple-style-span"
style="border-collapse:separate; font-family:Arial;
font-style:normal; font-variant:normal;
font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal;
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</span></div>
<div><span class="Apple-style-span"
style="border-collapse:separate; font-family:Arial;
font-style:normal; font-variant:normal;
font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal;
line-height:normal; orphans:2; text-indent:0px;
text-transform:none; white-space:normal; widows:2;
word-spacing:0px; font-size:medium">Best,</span></div>
<div><span class="Apple-style-span"
style="border-collapse:separate; font-family:Arial;
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</span></div>
<div><span class="Apple-style-span"
style="border-collapse:separate; font-family:Arial;
font-style:normal; font-variant:normal;
font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal;
line-height:normal; orphans:2; text-indent:0px;
text-transform:none; white-space:normal; widows:2;
word-spacing:0px; font-size:medium">Bill</span></div>
</blockquote>
<br>
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