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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I agree with Bill's critique of Jeremy and Norbert's approach (re-invent the IGF and hope everyone shows up for it).
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">It seems to me we have to get the IGF to work. The IGF itself, not a clone or a re-run. If we can't get the governments that were critical of the IG status
quo, and the private sector players who were scared of any deviation from the IG status quo, to work with us properly in the context of the existing IGF, repeating the experiment in a new, even more marginalized venue, is unlikely to work.
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">But I also have to agree with Lee: the centerpiece of the campaign has to be something more inspiring and motivating than whether we call something a "working
group." I would suggest that we find an issue that people really want to do something about, such as evaluating ICANN, ITU, etc. as Bill suggested, and try to gain commitments from a critical mass of stakeholders to support some long-term initiative around
that.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org [mailto:governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Lee W McKnight<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, July 15, 2012 11:31 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> William Drake; governance@lists.igcaucus.org<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Malcom, Jeremy<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [governance] Re: ITU consultation and open access => IGF working groups<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black">I was referring to my Geneva(n) New York neighbors ; ) - ok whatever, pardon mois.<br>
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But I still can't picture how your social media mobilization campaign for IGF 'working groups' is going to gain adherents.
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Unless you just help Norbert flesh out his ECTF proposal, which comes with the ability to launch working groups built in; reporting to/from IGF.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black"> William Drake [william.drake@uzh.ch]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, July 15, 2012 10:48 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a>; Lee W McKnight<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Malcom, Jeremy<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [governance] Re: ITU consultation and open access => IGF working groups</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Hi Lee<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">On Jul 16, 2012, at 11:21 AM, Lee W McKnight wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black">Ok fine, if 'working groups' inspire Genevans, let's go for it.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Please, Genevois…it's not Wisconsin. <br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black"><br>
All I am still missing is the part where you explain why the UN freaking out over the phrase 'working groups' the last time their prospect was raised,
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Not the UN. Everyone other than the G77 and the IGC (for entirely different reasons).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black">either no longer matters;
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Still does, it'd be a very hard sell, as the WGIGF demonstrated. But when the WSIS looked to be a train wreck, the actors that initially opposed it accepted that there was nowhere to go besides launching an IGF.
If they start to recognize the prospects of a steady stream of varyingly sized train wrecks, maybe they'll also start to consider taking the IGF seriously to be the least bad alternative. But the case would have to be made effectively, which would require
redirecting and focusing energies.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black">or can be overcome in the not lightyears distant future, through what is I am sure a very inspiring strategem you've pre-cooked.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Oh yes, grand plan, fully elaborated, right here in my pocket ;-)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">More like muddling through, groping in the dark, wishing on a star…pick your metaphor.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Cheers,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Bill<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black">From:</span></b><span class="apple-converted-space"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black"> </span></span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black">William
Drake [william.drake@uzh.ch]<br>
<b>Sent:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Sunday, July 15, 2012 10:15 PM<br>
<b>To:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org" target="_blank">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a>; Lee W McKnight; Malcom, Jeremy<br>
<b>Subject:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [governance] Re: ITU consultation and open access => IGF working groups</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Hi <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">On Jul 16, 2012, at 8:55 AM, Lee W McKnight wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black">My 2 cents:<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
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Since as far as I know noone can (now) stop us from proclaiming intent to launch a Dynamic Coalition on Open Internet Transparency or whatever name folks prefer, why not just do that and work to invite the government transparency folks, from government(s).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Sure, if all we want is another space for kibitzing among ourselves, let's do that.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black"><br>
The IG specialists might then come along.<br>
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Instead, fighting a war to get to call something a 'working group'...well that's not the most inspiring battle cry.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">I readily admit that what counts as inspiring in Syracuse may be different from what counts in Geneva :-) There's a lot of history here that may not be apparent. There were reasons why the caucus supported WGs
(but WGIGish peer-level multistakeholder able to reflect different views as 'outcomes,' not of the traditional UN kind). There were reasons why DCs were offered as an alternative. There were reasons why the governments we need dialogue with generally didn't
engage in DCs, thereby limiting the value of the exercise and helping to undermine IGF and direct their energies elsewhere. There are reasons why the situation has changed and it's worth trying again.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">On Jul 16, 2012, at 10:31 AM, Jeremy Malcolm wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="apple-style-span"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">Norbert, how about adding the working group on promoting and assessing, on an ongoing basis, the embodiment of WSIS principles in
Internet governance processes, to the ECTF proposal? As William notes is one of the important missing elements of the IGF"s mandate, and also one I suggested for the new body that I outlined at <a href="http://jere.my/l/2w" target="_blank">http://jere.my/l/2w</a>.
I don't feel that yet another dynamic coalition would do this justice. Whilst many people are still skeptical of the ECTF proposal, we can discuss it more at the APrIGF this week. It may or may not have legs in the end, but an alternative approach to DCs
is definitely needed.</span></span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"><br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="apple-style-span"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">Agree with the last phrase but not the rest. I think we should be trying to strengthen the IGF and attract governments and stakeholders
to seriously engage on the issues there, rather than proposing creation of another and competing mechanism that is even less likely to attract sufficient support and participation. </span></span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="apple-style-span"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">Best,</span></span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="apple-style-span"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">Bill</span></span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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