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<TITLE>Re: [governance] "Oversight"</TITLE>
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<FONT FACE="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:11pt'>Alx, dear long time friend and comrade in arms,<BR>
<BR>
Let me first acknowledge that within ICANN there have been some significant changes in recent years as regards the AOC, so, yes, some changes are occurring, and clearly some good work is going on.<BR>
<BR>
But as regards the IANA contracts, root zone authorisation, and USG role, which was the subject of my message -<BR>
<BR>
I would very happily work with anyone in the technical community towards a good evolution from current arrangements. I would very much like that involvement. But the only place I am aware of where suggestions of any pro-active sort are being made is this list, and its great to see increasing involvement here. I guess that’s a positive sign but it would be great to see positive proposals on ways forward from people like NROs, ISOC, rootops, etc. <BR>
<BR>
Are there other actions I should be aware of, or initiatives under way which I could assist with as regards this particular problem?<BR>
<BR>
Ian Peter<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<HR ALIGN=CENTER SIZE="3" WIDTH="95%"><B>From: </B>"Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch" <<a href="apisan@unam.mx">apisan@unam.mx</a>><BR>
<B>Reply-To: </B><<a href="governance@lists.igcaucus.org">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a>>, "Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch" <<a href="apisan@unam.mx">apisan@unam.mx</a>><BR>
<B>Date: </B>Fri, 15 Jun 2012 00:10:04 +0000<BR>
<B>To: </B>"<a href="governance@lists.igcaucus.org">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a>" <<a href="governance@lists.igcaucus.org">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a>>, Ian Peter <<a href="ian.peter@ianpeter.com">ian.peter@ianpeter.com</a>>, David Conrad <<a href="drc@virtualized.org">drc@virtualized.org</a>>, parminder <<a href="parminder@itforchange.net">parminder@itforchange.net</a>><BR>
<B>Subject: </B>RE: [governance] "Oversight"<BR>
<BR>
</SPAN></FONT><FONT SIZE="2"><FONT FACE="Courier New"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:10pt'>Ian, <BR>
<BR>
the technical community is "addressing the open issues with current governance." You may not like what you see or, even, you may not see it, but it is being done (not "happening" but being done.)<BR>
<BR>
At some point we had high hopes that people with your type of education, experience, and outlook, and with whom we have established a lot of trust through common efforts like the ISTF, would join forces and instill wisdom in a true grand collaboration.<BR>
<BR>
I - against a load of evidence - continue hopeful.<BR>
<BR>
Alejandro Pisanty<BR>
<BR>
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</SPAN></FONT></FONT><FONT FACE="Times New Roman"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:12pt'><HR ALIGN=CENTER SIZE="3" WIDTH="100%"></SPAN></FONT><FONT FACE="Tahoma, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:11pt'><B>Desde:</B></SPAN><SPAN STYLE='font-size:12pt'> <a href="governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org">governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org</a> [<a href="governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org">governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org</a>] en nombre de Ian Peter [<a href="ian.peter@ianpeter.com">ian.peter@ianpeter.com</a>]<BR>
<B>Enviado el:</B> jueves, 14 de junio de 2012 18:58<BR>
<B>Hasta:</B> <a href="governance@lists.igcaucus.org">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a>; David Conrad; parminder<BR>
<B>Asunto:</B> Re: [governance] "Oversight"<BR>
</SPAN></FONT><SPAN STYLE='font-size:12pt'><FONT FACE="Times New Roman"><BR>
</FONT></SPAN><FONT FACE="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:11pt'>David wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>You keep saying this, but I see no evidence of this stance from anyone. What I do see is pragmatism: the Internet largely >works (for some value of the variable 'work') and before we risk that, we need to be sure what replaces the current >scheme isn't going to break things.<BR>
<BR>
I personally will be much happier when the technical community, in addition to acknowledging that there are issues with current governance, takes a pro-active stance in devising new governance patterns rather than just taking a stance of providing a critique of proposals. <BR>
<BR>
A lack of progress in this area only feeds the arguments of those who want greater government control.<BR>
<BR>
Ian Peter<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<HR ALIGN=CENTER SIZE="3" WIDTH="95%"><B>From: </B>David Conrad <<a href="drc@virtualized.org">drc@virtualized.org</a> <UrlBlockedError.aspx> ><BR>
<B>Reply-To: </B><<a href="governance@lists.igcaucus.org">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a> <UrlBlockedError.aspx> >, David Conrad <<a href="drc@virtualized.org">drc@virtualized.org</a> <UrlBlockedError.aspx> ><BR>
<B>Date: </B>Thu, 14 Jun 2012 08:14:13 -0700<BR>
<B>To: </B><<a href="governance@lists.igcaucus.org">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a> <UrlBlockedError.aspx> >, parminder <<a href="parminder@itforchange.net">parminder@itforchange.net</a> <UrlBlockedError.aspx> ><BR>
<B>Subject: </B>Re: [governance] "Oversight"<BR>
<BR>
Norbert and Parminder,<BR>
<BR>
On Jun 14, 2012, at 3:53 AM, parminder wrote:<BR>
</SPAN></FONT><BLOCKQUOTE><FONT FACE="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:11pt'><BR>
</SPAN></FONT><SPAN STYLE='font-size:11pt'><FONT FACE="Helvetica, Verdana, Arial">Norbert has put the 'slippery slope' scenario quite well.<BR>
</FONT></SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE><SPAN STYLE='font-size:11pt'><FONT FACE="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><BR>
From my perspective, having been at times in various points in the processes you're concerned about, these scenarios all fail the sniff test. They rely on several independent parties (at the very least, the USG, the root server operators, and the operators of resolvers) all working in concert against their own self interest in order for actions to be taken that can be much more easily imposed with less political/economic/social risk/fallout at other points in the system. The idea that ISPs of the world would turn a blind eye and meekly submit if the US government decided to hijack root name resolution regardless of the reason doesn't even pass the giggle test for me.<BR>
<BR>
However, it seems clear to me that you are convinced this is a viable threat and nothing I can say will convince you otherwise. I gather you believe there needs to be a treaty-based solution to address that threat:<BR>
<BR>
</FONT></SPAN><BLOCKQUOTE><SPAN STYLE='font-size:11pt'><FONT FACE="Helvetica, Verdana, Arial">But since in the discharge of the oversight role, commission is a much bigger issue than omission, it is certainly better if say 15 other country reps have to simultaneously agree to an act of commission along with the US rather than US getting to decide it alone. <BR>
</FONT></SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE><SPAN STYLE='font-size:11pt'><FONT FACE="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><BR>
(and people complain that root zone changes take far too long now :-))<BR>
<BR>
</FONT></SPAN><BLOCKQUOTE><SPAN STYLE='font-size:11pt'><FONT FACE="Helvetica, Verdana, Arial">And that much better if there is an international law to clearly describe the oversight role, its procedures and limits, and an international judicial system to adjudicate whether the concerned body acted as per the relevant international law. <BR>
</FONT></SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE><SPAN STYLE='font-size:11pt'><FONT FACE="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><BR>
As I tried to describe earlier, as far as I know, the current role of the USG in matters related to root zone management is to verify that ICANN hasn't gone off the rails. It has no active role. It doesn't propose changes (well, other than changes to domains it has direct responsibility for like .US). What exactly do you anticipate this international body doing? Given the technical architecture of the DNS requires a single source of data and that single source must physically exist in some host country somewhere, how would this international body prevent the host country from doing exactly the same actions you believe the US can take?<BR>
<BR>
</FONT></SPAN><BLOCKQUOTE><SPAN STYLE='font-size:11pt'><FONT FACE="Helvetica, Verdana, Arial">None of this exists at present vis a vis US's exercise of the oversight role. It just a bunch of people convinced that US's is a good and benign government. <BR>
</FONT></SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE><SPAN STYLE='font-size:11pt'><FONT FACE="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><BR>
You keep saying this, but I see no evidence of this stance from anyone. What I do see is pragmatism: the Internet largely works (for some value of the variable 'work') and before we risk that, we need to be sure what replaces the current scheme isn't going to break things.<BR>
<BR>
Regards,<BR>
-drc<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
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