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<DIV><FONT face=Tahoma><FONT size=2><SPAN class=691292311-23052012><FONT
face=Arial>Bill, I don't think that you responded to this below as yet although
of course, I might have missed it.</FONT></SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Tahoma><FONT size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
class=691292311-23052012></SPAN></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Tahoma><FONT size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
class=691292311-23052012>The questions which were sincerely meant (I just don't
know and haven't had the opportunity to observe the discussions around these
issues first hand), are not I think trivial since it would appear that
significant portions of the US (and other) media and others seem to be taking
the same positions as yours i.e </SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Tahoma><FONT size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
class=691292311-23052012> 1. equating "oversight through
an appropriate, democratic and participative multilateral body'" with
"inter-governmental control over CIR" (which don't on the face of it appear to
be equivalent) and</SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Tahoma><FONT size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
class=691292311-23052012> 2. damning the suggestion of
"oversight through an appropriate, democratic and participative multilateral
body'" because of support from countries such as Iran and Pakistan (for which I
couldn't find any evidence (for Iran and Pakistan at least) after some fairly
extensive searching on Google--but perhaps I got the search terms
wrong...</SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Tahoma><FONT size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
class=691292311-23052012></SPAN></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Tahoma><FONT size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
class=691292311-23052012>I'm asking for some specific references to justify
either or both positions.</SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Tahoma><FONT size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
class=691292311-23052012></SPAN></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Tahoma><FONT size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
class=691292311-23052012>Tks,</SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Tahoma><FONT size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
class=691292311-23052012></SPAN></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Tahoma><FONT size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
class=691292311-23052012>Mike</SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Tahoma><FONT color=#0000ff size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
class=691292311-23052012></SPAN></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Tahoma><FONT color=#0000ff size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
class=691292311-23052012></SPAN></FONT></FONT><FONT face=Tahoma><FONT
size=2><SPAN class=691292311-23052012> </SPAN>-----Original
Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> michael gurstein [mailto:recent:gurstein@gmail.com]
<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, May 21, 2012 12:50 AM<BR><B>To:</B> 'William
Drake'<SPAN class=691292311-23052012><FONT color=#0000ff
face=Arial> </FONT></SPAN><B>:</B>
'governance@lists.igcaucus.org'<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: [governance] Twitter
officially shutdown to Internet users in Pakistan<BR></DIV></FONT></FONT>
<DIV><SPAN class=886501507-21052012><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Actually Bill I did
check Google with a variety of search terms and I couldn't find any references
to this naming Pakistan or Iran as specific supporters of </FONT><FONT
face=Arial><FONT size=2> "an appropriate, democratic and participative
multilateral body.'" with or without the terms "appropriate" or
"participative". Perhaps with your evidently superior knowledge you could
provide the specifics which you appear to be quoting.</FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
class=886501507-21052012></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=886501507-21052012><FONT face=Arial><FONT size=2>Also, am I
correct in understanding you to be asserting that indicating a support for
"oversight" by </FONT></FONT><FONT size=2 face=Arial>"an appropriate, democratic
and participative multilateral body'" is synonomous with taking a position
for "inter-governmental control over CIR". </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=886501507-21052012><FONT size=2
face=Arial></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=886501507-21052012><FONT size=2 face=Arial>I don't doubt that
there is likely diplomatic code words involved here but at least on the face of
it "oversight" is not synomyous with "control" and "appropriate" and
"participative oversight" would suggest a process somewhat different from
that implied by a simple assertion of "inter-governmental control".
But again you likely have superior knowledge here and some evidence or
references to support this would be appreciated.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
class=886501507-21052012></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
class=886501507-21052012>Tks,</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
class=886501507-21052012></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
class=886501507-21052012>M</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
class=886501507-21052012></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
class=886501507-21052012></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px" dir=ltr>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr lang=en-us class=OutlookMessageHeader align=left><FONT size=2
face=Tahoma>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> William Drake
[mailto:william.drake@uzh.ch] <BR><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, May 20, 2012 11:59
PM<BR><B>To:</B> michael gurstein<BR><B>Cc:</B>
governance@lists.igcaucus.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [governance] Twitter
officially shutdown to Internet users in Pakistan<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>Hi Mike
<DIV><BR>
<DIV>
<DIV>On May 20, 2012, at 5:41 PM, michael gurstein wrote:</DIV><BR
class=Apple-interchange-newline>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<DIV><BR>Bill,<BR><BR>Is this a fact that Iran and Pakistann have indicated
that they "would like<BR>'the oversight of the Internet's critical
technical and logical<BR>infrastructure" to be "transferred to an
appropriate, democratic and<BR>participative multilateral
body.'"<BR></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Uh, yes..? Both governments have made statements publicly and
privately calling for intergovernmental control over CIR since WSIS phase I.
"Democratic" and "multilateral" have been consistent, the other words
have varied, sometimes "suitable," "inclusive" etc. </DIV><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<DIV><BR>If so would it be possible to share the reference and if possible a
listing<BR>of all the other countries that have similarly indicated this as
a<BR>preference.<BR></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Sorry, I don't have handy copies of the transcripts from every WSIS,
WGIG, IGF, CSTD, ITU etc. meeting in which they and others have expressed
their preferences, but I imagine if you dig around with a search engine of
your choice you should find some stuff.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Cheers</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Bill</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<DIV><FONT class=Apple-style-span color=#000000><BR></FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<DIV><BR>-----Original Message-----<BR>From: William Drake
[mailto:william.drake@uzh.ch] <BR>Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2012 8:36 AM<BR>To:
michael gurstein<BR>Cc: <A
href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</A><BR>Subject:
Re: [governance] Twitter officially shutdown to Internet users
in<BR>Pakistan<BR><BR><BR>Hi Mike,<BR><BR>Sorry, didn't think it was
obscure. These are among the governments that<BR>would like "the
oversight of the Internet's critical technical and
logical<BR>infrastructure" to be "transferred to an appropriate, democratic
and<BR>participative multilateral body." There's not much chance that
such a body<BR>would produce a global treaty about Internet Rights/rights on
the Internet<BR>that would constrain them, when what they plainly want is a
mechanism that<BR>strengthens sovereign control and gives them international
cover in taking<BR>such actions. <BR><BR>Best,<BR><BR>Bill<BR><BR>On May 20,
2012, at 5:03 PM, michael gurstein wrote:<BR><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">Quite honestly Bill, the actual meaning/logic of
your (I think meant <BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">to be) ironic comment escapes me (I read it four
times and it still <BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">escapes me...<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">(and by my reckoning had either or both of Iran
and Pakistan signed on <BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">to some global treaty about Internet Rights/rights
on the Internet (or <BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">something similar) it would I'm assuming, be even
a wee bit more <BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">difficult for the respectie governments to act in
this high-handed way <BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">by for example, giving those internally in
opposition an international <BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">agreement to point to/argue for before the courts;
and also give those <BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">externally who disagree with those actions some
specific context for <BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">them to exercise their disagreement; or have I
missed something here.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">M<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">-----Original Message-----<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">From: <A
href="mailto:governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org">governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org</A><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">[mailto:governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org] On
Behalf Of William <BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">Drake<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2012 7:39 AM<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">To: <A
href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</A><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">Subject: Re: [governance] Twitter officially
shutdown to Internet users in<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">Pakistan<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">On May 20, 2012, at 3:30 PM, Fouad Bajwa
wrote:<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">Twitter officially shutdown in Pakistan -
Twitter Banned in Pakistan <BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><A
href="http://internetsgovernance.blogspot.com/2012/05/twitter-officially-sh">http://internetsgovernance.blogspot.com/2012/05/twitter-officially-sh</A><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">u<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">tdown-in-pakistan.html<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">If only "the oversight of the Internet's critical
technical and <BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">logical infrastructure" could be "transferred to
an appropriate, <BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">democratic and participative multilateral body" so
that Pakistan would <BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">not be forced to take unilateral action merely to
shut out this evil <BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">monopolist that, with three other sites, controls
"much of what is <BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">considered to be the Internet today by most people
today".<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">On May 13, 2012, at 12:25 AM, michael gurstein
wrote:<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">"The telecommunications minister has ordered
the use of domain names <BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">ending with .ir" belonging to Iran, Asr
Ertebatat reported.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">The order prohibits banks, insurance firms and
telephone firms using <BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">foreign hosts for their sites or to inform
their clients using <BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">foreign providers such as Yahoo, Gmail,
Hotmail or MSN, it said.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">If only "the oversight of the Internet's critical
technical and <BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">logical infrastructure" could be "transferred to
an appropriate, <BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">democratic and participative multilateral body" so
that Iran would not <BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">be forced to take unilateral action merely to shut
out these evil <BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">monopolists...<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">We demand it!<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE
type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>