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I wonder how C</font>onsumers International will view the take
that increasingly for the big Internet companies like Google and
Facebook, 'we' (eyeballs) are the product, and the advertising
agencies are the real consumers!<br>
<br>
The result of a media space being 'paid' almost entirely by private
funding (advertising) with very little public funding or
subscriptions. <br>
And what would be the need/role for regulation in such a case....<br>
<br>
regards,<br>
Guru<br>
<br>
On 19/05/12 06:09, Jeremy Malcolm wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid:8FFA3EA3-DB0D-4E51-9DC4-D7B821EB2AB3@ciroap.org"
type="cite">
<div>
<div>On 19/05/2012, at 12:51 AM, Milton L Mueller wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<blockquote type="cite">Monopolies aren't the only firms who
act against the global public interest(s),</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">so too do run-of-the-mill firms in a
competitive market. <br>
</blockquote>
<br>
Typically, a competitive market means that consumers can
avoid or punish such firms by abandoning them because of
their bad practices.</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>s/Typically/Theoretically/</div>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>Moreover, I do not see run-of-the-mill firms and run of
the mill consumer protection issues being targeted in these
sweeping statements calling for "democratic" governance of
the internet - I see specific leading companies being called
monopolies. <br>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Sure, I agree with you that that is inaccurate. But I
think all that is meant, in non-specialist terms, is that
those leading companies have dominant market power, so that
what competition exists is ineffective. Sometimes this market
power is first mover advantage, sometimes dumb luck, usually
network effects. I'm not convinced that Skype has the best
VoIP service, Facebook the best social networking platform
or Twitter the best microblog. But because they are so
entrenched, Microsoft can add interception capability to Skype
(see <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://skype-open-source.blogspot.com/">http://skype-open-source.blogspot.com/</a>),
Facebook can encroach further and further upon our privacy,
and Twitter can... do bad stuff that thankfully they haven't
tried yet.</div>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<blockquote type="cite">would have to include the US here.
For example, the use of lengthy and<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">legalistic terms and conditions that
detract from consumer rights is rife<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">online, and this is something that
US law explicitly allows. In other<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
Indeed, that is a continuing point of controversy. But there
is an additional burden of proof: at what political level is
it best to alter such things? <br>
There is a robust culture and tradition of consumer activism
in the US. What makes you think consumers will get a better
deal at a global level? <br>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>We (by which I mean, the stakeholders collectively at the
global level) might want to be able to agree on some set of
principles for online businesses that operate across borders,
that would set minimum standards for consumer protection that
may exceed those in the country from which the business
operates. If the business doesn't want to adhere to those
standards, it can still operate domestically. In practice
this already happens to some extent, eg. with EU privacy law
and the safe harbor, but what about the rest of the world?</div>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<blockquote type="cite">jurisdictions, there is regulation
of unfair contract terms, recognising the<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">fictitious nature of freedom of
contract between consumers and large firms.<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">But the dominance of US online
businesses effectively trumps these<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">protections elsewhere in the world.<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
But if these markets are competitive then no one is
requiring consumers to use those online businesses, no? So
we are back to the problem of monopoly<br>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
</div>
<div>Not all of the abuses of their market power affect
competition in the marketplace; they may "just" affect consumer
or broader human rights, so competition law does not come into
play.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>On 19/05/2012, at 12:11 AM, McTim wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 9:41 AM, Jeremy Malcolm <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:jeremy@ciroap.org">jeremy@ciroap.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote type="cite">Monopolies aren't the only firms who
act against the global public interest(s), so too do
run-of-the-mill firms in a competitive market.<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
both monopolies and "run of the mill" firms are also
end-users in the<br>
sense that they are allowed to run their networks and set
their ToS as<br>
they wish.<br>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>To the extent that they are allowed to do so. What
constraints are placed upon them doing so is a policy
decision.</div>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<blockquote type="cite">Not all of their abuses are checked
by competition law.<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
Not all are abusive.</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Not all abuses are abusive? My mind is spinning.</div>
<br>
<div>
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<div>-- <br>
<p style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
font-size: medium; margin-bottom:
12pt;"><b><span style="color: black;">Dr
Jeremy Malcolm<br>
Senior Policy Officer</span></b><br>
<span style="font-size: 9pt; color:
black;">Consumers International</span><br>
<span style="font-size: 9pt; color:
gray;">Kuala Lumpur Office for
Asia-Pacific and the Middle East<br>
Lot 5-1 Wisma WIM, 7 Jalan Abang
Haji Openg, TTDI, 60000 Kuala
Lumpur, Malaysia<br>
Tel: +60 3 7726 1599</span></p>
</div>
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<br>
</blockquote>
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