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Lehto<br>
<br>
Thanks for this post and your insights.<br>
<br>
Glad that someone is taking up the jealous liberal stance. One
factor that needs to be taken into account is the relative power of
countries. The US is exceptional, in the sense that it is a global
power, with a "monopoly" on CIR in many respects.<br>
<br>
Also, it would seem like the list of supporting states for this
declaration could almost be conflated with either rogue, axis of
evil, or "unapproaved" regimes. The experience of these countries,
i.e. interference in their affairs (from Reagan who said he was a
"contra", through to the coup of Chavez, or the National Endowment
of Democracy or similar groups funding the "greens" in Iran, etc,
etc) should be kept in mind. <br>
<br>
This makes for complicated analysis, but coherence and even
handedness are good defences to taking on these issues (as is
evident, poor countries are in situations that democracy can be
"hijacked" by "other" forces" besides the legitimate aspirations of
the people - coming soon to a humanitarian invasion near you).<br>
<br>
We should not stifle debate and responses to Parminder's note would
instructive... especially if we are interested in advancing a just
cause for all, instead of being right...<br>
<br>
In other words, pretensions of human rights should not blind us to
its parochial or political interpretations... <br>
<br>
Peace<br>
<br>
Riaz<br>
<br>
On 2012/03/01 09:43 PM, Paul Lehto wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAD=1OvfKJNDr58PrseE2CRmyo0E6RPDcPnn+XsAhQ6+ZYWFPcg@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">The Joint Statement delivered by China below is a
perfect example of an invocation of the most enforceable human
"right" there is: The "right" to support the sovereignty and
actions of the incumbent regime in one's home country. This right
of supporting the powers the be is rarely violated, and is so
common and non-controversial as to be omitted from most human
rights instruments, but it is still the implicit foundation of the
Joint Statement delivered by China:<br>
<br>
<i>"Mr. Moderator, all stakeholders of the international community
should take concerted efforts <b><u>to prevent and combat the
abuse of freedom of expression on the Internet</u></b>. I<b>nternet
</b><u><b>users of all countries</b> should respect the rights
and dignities of others, contribute to maintaining social
stability</u>, and safeguarding national security. The
internet’s industry should act to foster a crime-free, reliable
and secure cyberspace. Governments should strengthen legislation
in the field of internet regulation and law enforcement
activities with the aim of combating criminal activities."</i>
<br>
<br>
Earlier in the Joint Statement, they make clear in more detail
what the "abuses" of freedom of expression are. <br>
<br>
<i>"The <b>abuse of the freedom of expression</b>, on the
internet in particular, can encroach on the rights and dignity
of other individuals, undermine social safety and stability,
even threaten national security. The Internet is often used to
propagate terrorism, extremism, racism, xenophobia, <u>even
ideas of toppling legitimate authorities</u>. Moreoever, <b>the
Internet is used by some groups to distort facts, exaggerate
situations,</b> provoke violence, and <b>attempt to
exaggerate tension wherever it appears to obtain political
benefits.</b>" <br>
</i><br>
Under the Joint Statement, "all users" of the Internet (which
apparently includes those of us here on the IGC) should cooperate
to "maintain social stability" and combat "abuses of freedom of
expression" by those who "distort facts, exaggerate situations ...
and attempt to exaggerate tension wherever it appears to obtain
political benefits." To me, this Joint Statement is a clear
invocation of the "right" to support incumbent regimes, styled as
being a position "in strict accordance with international law" of
human rights, which does give credence to national sovereignty
ideas. To do so, they cite Article 19/20 of the ICCPR and other
international law.<br>
<br>
The original statement on human rights that I drafted was anchored
in a non-rights concept, namely that <i>the case for interference
with free expression must always be the more difficult one to
make than the case for upholding free expression</i>. One
commenter noted that this was an "important point" but
unfortunately it got edited out of the final statement, and
instead several expression mentions of international human rights
law were inserted. (Such laws will always be useless in domestic
courts precisely when they are needed the most)<br>
<br>
No Country is particularly principled when it comes to upholding
trenchant criticism of its governing policies or legitimacy, but
this is precisely the moment and the context when freedom of
expression is most important: to foster a peaceful process of
change via changing others' opinions of the incumbent regime. <br>
<br>
If not only violence or attempts to provoke violence are
prohibited free expression, but also speech that, as the Joint
Statement puts it, tends not to "promote social stability" is also
prohibited, then <b><u>all peaceful and</u> all violent means of
social change</b> on the internet are effectively prohibited.<br>
<br>
None of us truly needs a "right" to be a loyal citizen, to keep to
one's own business, or to support the incumbent regime. We need
rights only to protect us when some other powerful person or
organization doesn't like what we have to say. Supporting the
incumbent regime's security efforts may be "expression" but it is
not free expression in the truest sense, in that it doesn't
require the support of a right to encourage and foster its
expression.<br>
<br>
The rights that mean the most are the ones that are being, or
might be, violated. Like anything that is valuable, important
human rights are subject to being stolen or violated. We should
not confuse the extent of the violation of a right with the
existence of the right or the enforceability of a right. <br>
<br>
If we do confuse human rights with the concepts of enforceability
of those rights in domestic courts or under national laws, there
will never be "rights without borders". <br>
<br>
As someone trained in the law, I of course do not oppose expansion
of the recognition and enforcement of human rights globally, in
domestic courts and elsewhere. But the most important times for
human rights to apply will always be when domestic courts are of
absolutely no use whatsoever, such as in Nazi Germany or cases of
genocide. This is why we must, in my opinion, always keep our
independence from not only national law, but even international
law (in the sense in which international law is interpreted in
domestic courts at least).<br>
<br>
Paul Lehto, J.D.<br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Mar 1, 2012 at 11:12 AM, William
Drake <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:william.drake@uzh.ch">william.drake@uzh.ch</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div style="word-wrap:break-word">
<div><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.unmultimedia.org/tv/webcast/2012/02/china-panel-on-right-to-freedom-of-expression-19th-session-human-rights-council.html"
target="_blank">http://www.unmultimedia.org/tv/webcast/2012/02/china-panel-on-right-to-freedom-of-expression-19th-session-human-rights-council.html</a></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>On behalf of Algeria, Bangladesh, Belarus, Burundi,
Cambodia, Congo, Cuba, DPRK, Ethiopia, Iran, Laos,
Malaysia, Mauritania, Myanmar, Namibia, Nicaragua,
Pakistan, Palestine, Philippines, Russia, Saudi Arabia,
Sri Lanka, Sudan, Turkmenistan, Venezuela, Vietnam,
Uzbekistan, Yemen, Zimbabwe.</div>
<div><br>
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<br>
***************************************************<br>
William J. Drake<br>
International Fellow & Lecturer<br>
Media Change & Innovation Division, IPMZ<br>
University of Zurich, Switzerland<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:william.drake@uzh.ch"
target="_blank">william.drake@uzh.ch</a></div>
<div style="word-wrap:break-word"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.mediachange.ch/people/william-j-drake"
target="_blank">www.mediachange.ch/people/william-j-drake</a><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.williamdrake.org"
target="_blank">www.williamdrake.org</a><br>
****************************************************</div>
</span></div>
</span></div>
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<br>
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<br>
<br clear="all">
<br>
-- <br>
Paul R Lehto, J.D.<br>
P.O. Box 1 <br>
Ishpeming, MI 49849 <br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:lehto.paul@gmail.com">lehto.paul@gmail.com</a><br>
906-204-4026 (cell)<br>
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<br>
<br>
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