I also support what Ginger and Marilia and Anriette are saying.<div>What I could possibly want more is a system that works rather than an intention on paper. I hope this is not too blunt but sometimes I feel that 'people' are saying "remote participation is a good thing", and then just stopping there. An excellent ploy might be to have just one meeting remote access only - so that everyone knows how the other side lives.</div>
<div>And I think that we all need to fight for it to make it 'really real'. Yes there will be breakdowns - electrical and otherwise - and yes we're only just scratching the surface of the language difficulties, but if we believe in it we can really make it happen.</div>
<div>Only we have to believe in it and support it - all of us.</div><div>Deirdre</div><br><div class="gmail_quote">On 24 February 2012 19:04, Anriette Esterhuysen <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:anriette@apc.org">anriette@apc.org</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Hi all..at two of the workshops I was involved in in Nairobi RM did not<br>
work.. either not at all, or partially. IN the last few months I have<br>
had bad experiences in trying to be a remote participant in Geneva based<br>
meetings. When my slow connection speed from South Africa interfered<br>
with my access to the meeting I was blamed for this.. and told that<br>
other people had no problems (they happened to be in Paris and Rio..<br>
places with much faster internet than what I have access to).<br>
<br>
As for the MAG meetings last week.. I personally spoke to IGF<br>
secretariat about the difficulties that remote participants were having<br>
in the morning. There was no improvement because the person responsible<br>
was having to take notes that were displayed from his PC onto the<br>
screen. I raised the concerns on the last day directly, during lunch,<br>
with the Chair from Azerbaidjan and with the Chair and then there was a<br>
response.<br>
<br>
But, if RM was taken seriously enough then more resoures would have been<br>
made available. I am not blaming the secretariat.. they were stretched<br>
and doing the best they can. The problem is deeper than just this one<br>
incident.<br>
<br>
I strongly support Ginger's points, and Marilia's additions. RM has to<br>
be taken MUCH more seriously if it is going to be a serious way for<br>
people to participate, and influence processes, without being physically<br>
present.<br>
<br>
RM is beginning to feel like MSP (Multi-stakeholder participation). The<br>
fact that it 'exists' is used to give credibility to processes that<br>
still have a very long way to go in being really inclusive. If RM is to<br>
be taken seriously it needs more focus and more budget. As long as RM is<br>
seen primarily as a way to 'save money and look good' it will not be<br>
effective as an alternative to having generally excluded actors<br>
physically present at meetings.<br>
<br>
Anriette<br>
<div><div class="h5"><br>
<br>
On 24/02/12 22:00, Marilia Maciel wrote:<br>
> I support Ginger's e-mail, so I will not repeat her arguments.<br>
><br>
> There is only one additional point I would like to make in response to<br>
> Adam, when he quoted what the Chair's report said about remote<br>
> participation. While it is totally understandable that people who happen<br>
> to be working for the IGF will come up with positive results and be<br>
> inclined to see the bright side of things, I believe that civil society<br>
> is expected to present more meaningful, in-depth and constructive<br>
> analysis of the process, including of remote participation.<br>
><br>
> The difficulties remote participants faced went beyond a simple power<br>
> shortage on the last day of the IGF, as you implied. Technical and human<br>
> resources were not sufficient. This is exemplified by: simple audio<br>
> adjustments that technicians did not know how to perform, or by the fact<br>
> that the hired staff of remote moderators you mentioned were on strike<br>
> on the first day of the IGF because they were not receiving enough money<br>
> to cover for basic expenses at the venue, or even by the fact that some<br>
> workshop organizers, despite all the requests from the secretariat, did<br>
> not bother to reply if they had a moderator or not.<br>
><br>
> So the fact that remote participation is a priority on IGF papers, as<br>
> you pointed out, says little. You asked Deidre "what she could possibly<br>
> want more". If you read Ginger's e-mail you will find a list of wishes.<br>
> And if the community thinks RP is important (and I think that the<br>
> increasing interest for remote participation confirms it is ), then we<br>
> should make a collective effort to take the opportunity of the process<br>
> of discussing the implementation of IGF improvements to give RP a big push.<br>
><br>
> Marília<br>
><br>
><br>
> On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 8:47 AM, Ginger Paque <<a href="mailto:gpaque@gmail.com">gpaque@gmail.com</a><br>
</div></div><div><div class="h5">> <mailto:<a href="mailto:gpaque@gmail.com">gpaque@gmail.com</a>>> wrote:<br>
><br>
> Adam said:<br>
><br>
> I think it's petty to complain about technical problems with the<br>
> transcripts etc from the MAG meeting, bad connections happen all the<br>
> time (and if MAG members can't work out how to tell a group of people<br>
> they are having problems with a connection it perhaps says more about<br>
> them than it does about the secretariat/moderators.)<br>
><br>
> I think that this full discussion and support for RP is very<br>
> important and exciting.<br>
><br>
> I think that using the occasion of the recent meetings as an example<br>
> and illustration is a mistake. I agree with Adam that the tech<br>
> glitches during last week's meetings should not even be<br>
> addressed--these are obvious. Placing emphasis on tech details draws<br>
> attention from the more valid, and more important principles. I know<br>
> I am repeating myself, but I think they boil down to just one:<br>
><br>
> RP must be institutionalized in meeting processes.<br>
><br>
> The only serious problem I see with last week's meetings was the<br>
> lack of a remote moderator and clear processes. If RP -- and I mean<br>
> remote participation and remote engagement, not remote observation<br>
> -- were an automatic, standard part of meeting strategies and<br>
> processes, the inclusion of an onsite remote moderator would have<br>
> been a given, as much as the presence of the traditional chair and<br>
> moderator. I dare to say that if one of the members of the RPWG had<br>
> been at the meetings, they might have 'requested' to be 'allowed' to<br>
> act as remote moderator. Remote moderation and remote participation<br>
> should not depend on collaboration of volunteers and serendipity.<br>
> Implementation of RP may always need the collaboration of<br>
> volunteers, and the RPWG exists as a volunteer organization, seeking<br>
> the privilege of collaborating, but the planning process should<br>
> originate in the IGF structure itself, not in the action of volunteers.<br>
><br>
> If RP were institutionalized in the IGF process, the Secretariat<br>
> might ask the RPWG for collaboration, and issue a call for volunteers.<br>
><br>
> If RP were institutionalized in the IGF process, the Secretariat<br>
> might include a RPWG (or other mechanism) liaison for strategy,<br>
> planning and process and instead of an endless series of ad hoc<br>
> situations.<br>
><br>
> If RP were institutionalized, Remote Hubs -- an innovation of the<br>
> RPWG catalysed by Marilia's energy and organization -- would become<br>
> part of the IGF process, not the RPWG process, would include remote<br>
> hubs whenever appropriate and would include support for regional IGFs.<br>
><br>
> I would prefer to see a strong, clear, short statement asking that<br>
> RP be institutionalised (maybe that is not the appropriate word) as<br>
> an integral part of the IGF meeting process.<br>
><br>
> Establishing principles and guidelines is separate process which has<br>
> been started, and should be coordinated to take advantage of, and<br>
> include the different input. It should not be done in a hurry, in<br>
> response to one frustrating meeting. Nor should one frustrating<br>
> meeting opaque the progress the IGF has made toward inclusive RP. We<br>
> should use this meeting to energize forward progress in an orderly<br>
> manner. Can we form a better strategy and focus for productive<br>
> results? I think so. I have not made comments on the existing<br>
> statement, because I would re-write it completely, with a different<br>
> approach, with points I have made above.<br>
><br>
> Is it proper/possible for me to propose an alternate text? I do not<br>
> have the sense that there is consensus for the posts I have made<br>
> previously, so I have not done so.<br>
><br>
> Anyway, again, my 2 cents. Cheers for the energy around remote<br>
> participation!<br>
><br>
> Ginger<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Ginger (Virginia) Paque<br>
><br>
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><br>
> On 23 February 2012 05:13, Adam Peake <<a href="mailto:ajp@glocom.ac.jp">ajp@glocom.ac.jp</a><br>
</div><div class="im">> <mailto:<a href="mailto:ajp@glocom.ac.jp">ajp@glocom.ac.jp</a>>> wrote:<br>
><br>
> Comment below:<br>
><br>
> On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 6:33 PM, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro<br>
> <<a href="mailto:salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro@gmail.com">salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro@gmail.com</a><br>
</div><div><div class="h5">> <mailto:<a href="mailto:salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro@gmail.com">salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro@gmail.com</a>>> wrote:<br>
> > Dear All,<br>
> ><br>
> > Firstly thank you Deirdre for copying it onto word and making<br>
> it much easier<br>
> > to incorporate the new feedback that we received from Schombe,<br>
> Jovan,<br>
> > Anriette, Jeremy, Roland, Mariela etc.<br>
> ><br>
> > Whilst I am copying the text onto this email, I will also<br>
> place it on the<br>
> > Statement Workspace as well:<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > STATEMENT BY THE CIVIL SOCIETY INTERNET GOVERNANCE CAUCUS ON<br>
> REMOTE<br>
> > PARTICIPATION<br>
> ><br>
> > We would like to acknowledge the excellent work that the<br>
> Internet Governance<br>
> > Forum Remote Participation Working Group have been doing over<br>
> the last five<br>
> > years. We appreciate the numerous hours of sacrifice and work<br>
> behind the<br>
> > scenes to build remote participation to what it is today. We<br>
> have seen how<br>
> > whilst Technology is important, that it goes hand in hand with<br>
> extraordinary<br>
> > levels of sacrifice and commitment. It is this commitment<br>
> that enables the<br>
> > spirit of the IGF which is in sharing, dialogue, collaboration and<br>
> > ultimately access.<br>
> ><br>
> > We are fortunate that the Internet Governance Forum<br>
> Secretariat and UN DESA<br>
> > are open .and committed to continued improvements to Remote<br>
> Participation.<br>
> > Each year the IGF RPWG commences its operations with training<br>
> of remote<br>
> > moderators many weeks ahead of the meeting, where they discuss<br>
> with remote<br>
> > hubs and encourage participation and liaise with the<br>
> Secretariat to make<br>
> > remote participation a reality.<br>
> ><br>
> > We would like to reiterate and underscore that remote<br>
> participation is a<br>
> > crucial part of organizing the Internet Governance Forum (IGF)<br>
> and we<br>
> > appreciate the effort to provide remote participation for the Open<br>
> > Consultation, the Multi-stakeholder Advisory Group (MAG)<br>
> meetings, and the<br>
> > MAG meeting this month – February 2012 – which was opened to<br>
> observers.<br>
> ><br>
> > The IGC believes that Remote Participation (RP) should be an<br>
> integral part<br>
> > of Internet Governance and IGF Policy Processes. It is<br>
> impossible to sustain<br>
> > an inclusive global policy process without effective remote<br>
> participation.<br>
> > We would like to explore how we can assist in working together<br>
> to address<br>
> > the issues raised in 2008 by various stakeholders that have<br>
> yet to be<br>
> > addressed[1].<br>
> ><br>
> > The MAG and IGF Secretariats should start working with the<br>
> host to ensure<br>
> > that real time transcriptions are available for all sessions<br>
> and not just<br>
> > the Main Sessions.<br>
> ><br>
><br>
> from the Nairobi chair's summary document:<br>
><br>
> "The entire meeting was Webcast, with video streaming provided from<br>
> the main session room and audio streaming provided from all workshop<br>
> meeting rooms. All the main sessions and workshops had real time<br>
> transcription. The text transcripts and video of all meetings were<br>
> made available through the IGF Website."<br>
><br>
> I think it's petty to complain about technical problems with the<br>
> transcripts etc from the MAG meeting, bad connections happen all the<br>
> time (and if MAG members can't work out how to tell a group of<br>
> people<br>
> they are having problems with a connection it perhaps says more<br>
> about<br>
> them than it does about the secretariat/moderators.)<br>
><br>
> Thanks,<br>
><br>
> Adam<br>
><br>
><br>
> > We would like to commend the excellent work of the technical<br>
> team from<br>
> > Politecnico di Torino, (The Polytechnic University of Turin)<br>
> which was<br>
> > originally brought by our colleague and former IGC Civil<br>
> Society Coordinator<br>
> > Vittorio Bertola.<br>
> ><br>
> > However, we would like to point out some difficulties that<br>
> occurred with the<br>
> > system during the open MAG meeting. On the third day, morning<br>
> session, (the<br>
> > second day of the open MAG meeting), remote observers were<br>
> effectively<br>
> > excluded because they had no access to live transcript.<br>
> ><br>
> > Also MAG members trying to participate online had difficulty<br>
> in contacting<br>
> > moderators, partly because the moderators were serving more<br>
> than one<br>
> > function.<br>
> ><br>
> > We strongly urge MAG and IGF Secretariats and ourselves to<br>
> consider the<br>
> > following for the future IGF organizing work and the IGF<br>
> itself, and work<br>
> > together to bring them about:<br>
> ><br>
> > · Ensuring equal participation between online and offline<br>
> participants<br>
> > through planning meetings to give online and offline<br>
> participants an equal<br>
> > opportunity to participate and contribute to meetings.<br>
> ><br>
> > · Ensuring that there is sufficient capacity and appropriate<br>
> bandwidth to<br>
> > sustain remote participation by liaising with hosts well in<br>
> advance to<br>
> > enable greater interactions from offline participants.<br>
> ><br>
> > · Preparing a clear comprehensive guideline for remote<br>
> participation and<br>
> > its moderation and post session or meeting reporting for<br>
> meeting hosts,<br>
> > facilitators and chairs.<br>
> ><br>
> > · Clearly advertising opportunities for RP in advance of all<br>
> meetings,<br>
> > with clear guidance for participants on the opportunities to<br>
> engage through<br>
> > RP that will be available.<br>
> ><br>
> > ·Always assigning exclusive remote participation<br>
> coordinator/moderators (who<br>
> > do not have other jobs at the same time, and are responsible for<br>
> > interactions between the meeting’s physical<br>
> participants/current speaker,<br>
> > the Chair and the remote participants).<br>
> ><br>
> > · Establishing a clear procedure that would encourage remote<br>
> participants<br>
> > to intervene. Such a system is desirable both for those<br>
> physically present<br>
> > in Geneva and those observing the meeting remotely.<br>
> ><br>
> > · Providing as much interactivity as possible by giving remote<br>
> > participants to interact and engage in meetings.<br>
> ><br>
> > · Providing multiple methods – video, voice and text<br>
> channel, as well as<br>
> > real-time transcription and video streaming – of coverage of<br>
> the meeting<br>
> ><br>
> > · Enabling the meeting and remote participation through<br>
> interactive<br>
> > presentations access through RP.<br>
> ><br>
> > · Creating a select Task force or Working Group created that has<br>
> > representatives from the Government, Private Sector and Civil<br>
> Society that<br>
> > is dedicated to seeing improvements of Remote<br>
> Participation and to ensure<br>
> > the incorporation of critical elements that have been<br>
> highlighted to ensure<br>
> > improved remote participation processes.<br>
> ><br>
> > Because only limited funds are available for face- to<br>
> -face participation,<br>
> > this issue is crucially important to all stakeholders from all<br>
> > constituencies who are entitled to participate in the<br>
> meetings, and who wish<br>
> > to do so from a remote location. Meeting Chairs also play a<br>
> central role in<br>
> > creating a dynamic and inclusive environment that welcomes remote<br>
> > participation.<br>
> ><br>
> > We also encourage greater partnership between the governments<br>
> and private<br>
> > sector in enhancing remote participation.<br>
> ><br>
> > We have to move beyond advocacy to listing and creating<br>
> tangible outcomes to<br>
> > make improved, stable and sustainable remote participation a<br>
> reality.<br>
> ><br>
> > There are regions around the world where transportation is<br>
> extremely<br>
> > expensive and one such region is the Pacific which has 22<br>
> countries and<br>
> > territories. Remote participation was the only way that any of<br>
> these<br>
> > countries could access the IGF.<br>
> ><br>
> > However there is room to improve processes and create an IGF<br>
> culture where<br>
> > remote participation is prioritised through exploring tested<br>
> methodology.<br>
> ><br>
> > The appropriate technical solutions need also to be explored<br>
> as well<br>
> > bandwidth and ensuring that there is uninterrupted power<br>
> supply and<br>
> > redundancy options where backup generators are critical to<br>
> maintain a<br>
> > consistent and seamless flow. The MAG and IGF Secretariats<br>
> should also<br>
> > ensure that there is sufficient and dedicated bandwidth<br>
> capacity to sustain<br>
> > the volume of traffic from remote participation.<br>
> ><br>
> > Aside from having the appropriate technical solutions and<br>
> should also<br>
> > include the following:-<br>
> ><br>
> > · Outreach.<br>
> ><br>
> > · Mapping local and regional stakeholders;<br>
> ><br>
> > · Coordinating with people on the ground significantly<br>
> before the<br>
> > IGF in a series of strategic roll out.<br>
> ><br>
> > · Creation of Guidelines for Meeting Chairs and<br>
> Moderators whilst<br>
> > noting the limitations.<br>
> ><br>
> > · Identifying how the private sector, civil society<br>
> and governments<br>
> > can be better involved in the remote hubs etc.<br>
> ><br>
> > · Encourage greater collaboration between the IGF RPWG<br>
> and national,<br>
> > sub regional and regional IGFs.<br>
> ><br>
> > We also express our support of the IGF RPWG which published<br>
> guidelines and<br>
> > recommendations for remote participation and IGF 2011 WS-67<br>
> participants<br>
> > prepared a draft of e-participation principles.<br>
> ><br>
> > Ends<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > ________________________________<br>
> ><br>
> > [1] <a href="http://wiki.igf-online.net/wiki/IGF_Virtual_Community" target="_blank">http://wiki.igf-online.net/wiki/IGF_Virtual_Community</a><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 1:02 PM, Deirdre Williams<br>
> > <<a href="mailto:williams.deirdre@gmail.com">williams.deirdre@gmail.com</a><br>
</div></div><div class="im">> <mailto:<a href="mailto:williams.deirdre@gmail.com">williams.deirdre@gmail.com</a>>> wrote:<br>
> >><br>
> >> Dear Sala,<br>
> >> I have been unavoidably out of contact all day, and am just<br>
> catching up<br>
> >> with reading the messages.<br>
> >> I am not clear which document you want me to send.<br>
> >> I have attached a word copy of my response yesterday,<br>
> although from<br>
> >> reading the discussion that has perhaps been superseded<br>
> during the<br>
> >> discussions today?<br>
> >> Please let me know as I would be delighted to help.<br>
> >> De<br>
> >><br>
> >><br>
> >> On 22 February 2012 14:15, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro<br>
> >> <<a href="mailto:salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro@gmail.com">salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro@gmail.com</a><br>
</div><div class="im">> <mailto:<a href="mailto:salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro@gmail.com">salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro@gmail.com</a>>> wrote:<br>
> >>><br>
> >>> Dear Deirdre,<br>
> >>><br>
> >>> As you know our initial statement was used by the civil<br>
> society component<br>
> >>> of the CSTDWG as advised by Marilia.<br>
> >>><br>
> >>> If you could please send it in a word document that would be<br>
> super<br>
> >>> helpful and easy to put up on the Statement Workspace. We<br>
> will also be<br>
> >>> sending our Statement to the IGF Secretariat.<br>
> >>><br>
> >>> Kind Regards,<br>
> >>><br>
> >>><br>
> >>><br>
> >>> --<br>
> >>> Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala<br>
> >>><br>
> >>> Tweeter: @SalanietaT<br>
> >>> Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro<br>
</div>> >>> Cell: <a href="tel:%2B679%20998%202851" value="+6799982851">+679 998 2851</a> <tel:%2B679%20998%202851><br>
<div class="im">> >>><br>
> >>><br>
> >>><br>
> >><br>
> >><br>
> >><br>
> >> --<br>
> >> “The fundamental cure for poverty is not money but knowledge"<br>
> Sir William<br>
> >> Arthur Lewis, Nobel Prize Economics, 1979<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > --<br>
> > Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala<br>
> ><br>
> > Tweeter: @SalanietaT<br>
> > Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro<br>
</div>> > Cell: <a href="tel:%2B679%20998%202851" value="+6799982851">+679 998 2851</a> <tel:%2B679%20998%202851><br>
<div class="im">> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > ____________________________________________________________<br>
> > You received this message as a subscriber on the list:<br>
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><br>
><br>
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> Centro de Tecnologia e Sociedade<br>
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</div><div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5">--<br>
------------------------------------------------------<br>
anriette esterhuysen <a href="mailto:anriette@apc.org">anriette@apc.org</a><br>
executive director, association for progressive communications<br>
<a href="http://www.apc.org" target="_blank">www.apc.org</a><br>
po box 29755, melville 2109<br>
south africa<br>
tel/fax <a href="tel:%2B27%2011%20726%201692" value="+27117261692">+27 11 726 1692</a><br>
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<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br>“The fundamental cure for poverty is not money but knowledge" Sir William Arthur Lewis, Nobel Prize Economics, 1979<br>