Dear All,<br> <br>These are excellent musings. If a few of you could work together to consolidate this into a paper and send to the list for comments. Better yet, utilise the etherpad on the IGC website, that would be fantastic.<br>
<br>Izumi can then take it up.<br><br>Kind Regards,<br>Sala<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sat, Feb 18, 2012 at 5:58 AM, Deirdre Williams <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:williams.deirdre@gmail.com">williams.deirdre@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div>I agree with the general call for funding support for physical presence at these meetings, but I would like to consider that separately</div>
<div><br></div><div>I think we have to try to win for Remote Participation the attention and priority that it deserves. I rather like Imran's proposal B (see below) - what do people think about proposing that a percentage of the meetings be set up as RP only? (maybe 50%???) I dislike the level playing field metaphor, but that would certainly level things A LOT. Of course there are many other things that need to be thought through carefully - like the time zone question - but I don't think that presents an insurmountable difficulty.</div>
<div><br></div><div>An important 'other thing' is the point made earlier this week by Avri about bandwidth and reliable connectivity - those who have and those who don't. I've put it by itself because it is probably the most important of all in thinking about an RP only meeting.</div>
<div><br></div><div>What do other people think?</div><div><br></div><div>Deirdre <br>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On 17 February 2012 08:22, Imran Ahmed Shah <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:ias_pk@yahoo.com" target="_blank">ias_pk@yahoo.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div><div style="font-size:14pt"><div><font face="Arial, sans-serif">....</font></div><div class="im">
<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span><span style="font-size:14pt;font-family:'Arial','sans-serif'"></span></span> </div>
<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span><span style="font-size:14pt;font-family:'Arial','sans-serif'">B: If the IGF itself can not manage funds for its own MAG, why not all the meetings goes Online with some Remote Partcipation through Comprehensive Remote Meeting Application Tool.</span></span></div>
</div><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span><span style="font-size:14pt;font-family:'Arial','sans-serif'"></span></span>.... </div><div><div class="h5">
<div><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14pt"> </span></div>
<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span><span style="font-size:14pt;font-family:'Arial','sans-serif'">Imran Ahmed Shah</span><u></u><u></u></span></div>
<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">[from IGFPAK]<br></div>
<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT:rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid;MARGIN-TOP:5px;PADDING-LEFT:5px;MARGIN-LEFT:5px">
<div style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:14pt">
<div style="FONT-FAMILY:times new roman,new york,times,serif;FONT-SIZE:12pt">
<div dir="ltr"><font face="Arial">
<div style="BORDER-BOTTOM:#ccc 1px solid;BORDER-LEFT:#ccc 1px solid;PADDING-BOTTOM:0px;LINE-HEIGHT:0;MARGIN:5px 0px;PADDING-LEFT:0px;PADDING-RIGHT:0px;min-height:0px;FONT-SIZE:0px;BORDER-TOP:#ccc 1px solid;BORDER-RIGHT:#ccc 1px solid;PADDING-TOP:0px" readonly>
</div><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold">From:</span></b> Jean-Louis FULLSACK <<a href="mailto:jlfullsack@orange.fr" target="_blank">jlfullsack@orange.fr</a>><br><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold">To:</span></b> <a href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org" target="_blank">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a>; Baudouin SCHOMBE <<a href="mailto:b.schombe@gmail.com" target="_blank">b.schombe@gmail.com</a>> <br>
<b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold">Sent:</span></b> Friday, 17 February 2012, 15:52<br><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold">Subject:</span></b> Re: [governance] Open consultation<br></font></div><div><div><br>
<div>Dear Baudoin and all<br><br>Multistakeholderism is just an empty shell if large parts of CS cannot be able to attend official "open" events where decisions or even recommendations are made. Most, if not all, of these parts of CS orgs are those from DCs, and the main, if not unique, point there is lack of funding.<br>
<br>During the open (WSIS Forum 2012) preparatory meeting held in Geneva on last November, EUROLINC, through the voice of its president Louis Pouzin, made en official statement on this very point that suggested a financial contribution from ICANN for this specific -Internet related- activity.<br>
<br>Here is the link to this statement : <a href="http://www.eurolinc.eu/spip.php?article77" target="_blank">http://www.eurolinc.eu/spip.php?article77</a><br><br>I wonder why nobody on the list mentions this important suggestion (i.a. APC was present at this meeting).<br>
<br>Imho, the proposal of EUROLONK is serious and documented. Therefore I'd encourage CS involved in the
IG process -the Caucus on IG in particular- to strongly supports it.<br><br>Best<br><br>Jean-Louis Fullsack<br>CSDPTT France<br><br><br><br><br><br>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT:#ff0000 2px solid;PADDING-LEFT:5px;MARGIN-LEFT:5px">> Message du 16/02/12 02:09<br>> De : "Baudouin SCHOMBE" <br>> A : <a href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org" target="_blank">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a>, "Deirdre Williams" <br>
> Copie à : <br>> Objet : Re: [governance] Open consultation<br>> <br>> <span><span>Hello</span> <span>Williams</span><span>,</span><br>> <br>> <span>I</span> <span>acquired</span> <span>your point of view</span> <span>because </span></span><span><span>in fact</span> <span>a</span> <span>good communication</span> <span>in a country like</span> <span>within a</span> <span>community</span> <span>is one of the</span> <span>prime factors</span> <span>in</span> <span>all human relationships</span><span></span></span><span><span></span><span>.</span> <span>The concerns raised</span> <span>last</span> <span>time</span> <span>this</span> <span>is not just</span> <span>the</span> <span>politicians, scientists</span><span>, technicians</span> <span>but</span> <span>different social groups</span> <span>represented</span> <span>by the various</span> <span>entities</span> <span>of civil society</span> <span>must also
be involved</span> <span>in discussions</span><span>.</span> <span>With this in</span> <span>mind,</span> <span>respecting</span> <span>building on</span> <span>the principle</span> <span>of</span> <span>multistakeholderism</span><span>,</span> <span>we thought</span> <span>our exchanges</span> <span>organized</span> <span>locally</span> <span>by relying on</span> <span>academic institutions</span><span>, private sector</span><span>,</span> <span>ICT</span> <span>technicians</span><span>, international agencies</span><span>,</span> <span>subregional and regional</span> <span>active instiutions in the country</span> <span>with</span> <span>civil</span> <span>society entities</span> <span>that represent the</span> <span>users</span><span>,</span> <span>ie</span> <span>consumers</span> <span>of ICT</span><span>.</span><br>
> <span>Institutions designated</span> <span>by combining</span> <span>academic</span><span>,</span> <span>we have 80</span><span>% chance to</span> <span>set up</span> <span>hub</span> <span>to allow people</span> <span>of the DRC</span> <span>to participate remotely</span><span>,</span> <span>each</span> <span>as</span> <span>possible,</span> <span>in discussions</span> <span>at local,</span> <span>sub</span> <span>regional</span><span>,</span> <span>regional and international levels</span><span>.<br>
> <br>> </span><span>This process</span> <span>requires very good</span> <span>planning and</span> <span>that's what</span> <span>we have already begun</span><span>.<br>> </span></span><span><span></span></span><br>
> <span><span>The language aspect</span> <span>is also in the</span> <span>privileged
position</span> <span>because in</span> <span>this world</span> <span>of knowledge</span> <span>said</span><span>,</span> <span>the language of communication</span> <span>has</span> <span>its very high</span> <span>up</span><span>.</span><br>
> <span>The national IGF</span> <span>is</span> <span>a</span>n indispensable<span></span> <span>support</span><span> and essential</span> <span>for</span> <span>IGF</span> <span>subregional, regional</span> <span>and international levels.</span><br>
> <br>> <span>Nothing durable</span> <span>can</span> <span>be designed</span> <span>if the</span> <span>nationals IGF</span> <span> are not</span> <span>considered</span> <span>base</span> <span>in</span> <span>all these approaches</span><span>.</span><span></span></span><br>
> <span><br>> <span>It is for</span> <span>this reason that even</span> <span>the level of funding</span><span>,</span> <span>the participation of</span> <span>active and useful</span> <span>really</span> <span>is becoming</span> <span>more</span> <span>problematic</span>
<span>in</span> <span>developing</span> <span>countries</span><span>.</span> <span>We must</span> <span>think about it.</span><br>> <span>We do not</span> <span>need the</span> <span>extras</span><span>.</span> <span>Official delegations</span> <span>present but</span> <span>physically absent</span> <span>in the debates</span> <span>or</span> <span>without any</span> <span>relevant contributions</span> <span>must</span> <span>also be</span> <span>raised</span> <span>even if</span> <span>it</span> <span>is already</span> <span>always</span> <span>use</span> <span>the emblematic</span> <span>issue of</span> <span>"</span><span>sovereignty</span><span>"</span><span>.<br>
> </span></span><span><br>> <span>It should</span> <span>also</span> <span>assess</span> <span>the active participation of</span> <span>official delegations</span><span>.</span></span><br>> <span><span style="COLOR:#333333"><br>
> <span style="BACKGROUND-COLOR:#33ff33">In short</span></span><span style="BACKGROUND-COLOR:#33ff33;COLOR:#333333"> </span><span style="BACKGROUND-COLOR:#33ff33;COLOR:#333333">we
need</span><span style="BACKGROUND-COLOR:#33ff33;COLOR:#333333"> </span><span style="BACKGROUND-COLOR:#33ff33;COLOR:#333333">to</span><span style="BACKGROUND-COLOR:#33ff33;COLOR:#333333"> </span><span style="BACKGROUND-COLOR:#33ff33;COLOR:#333333">talk</span><span style="BACKGROUND-COLOR:#33ff33;COLOR:#333333"> </span><span style="BACKGROUND-COLOR:#33ff33;COLOR:#333333">and not</span><span style="BACKGROUND-COLOR:#33ff33;COLOR:#333333"> </span><span><span style="BACKGROUND-COLOR:#33ff33;COLOR:#333333">exclude us.<br>
> <br>> </span><br></span></span>SCHOMBE BAUDOUIN<br>> <br>> Téléphone mobile:<a href="tel:%2B243998983491" value="+243998983491" target="_blank">+243998983491</a><br>> email : <a href="mailto:b.schombe@gmail.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">b.schombe@gmail.com</a><br>
> skype
: b.schombe<br>> blog : <a href="http://akimambo.unblog.fr/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://akimambo.unblog.fr</a><br>> Site Web : <a href="http://www.ticafrica.net/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">www.ticafrica.net</a><br>
> <br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> <br>>
<div style="PADDING-BOTTOM:0px;MARGIN:0px;PADDING-LEFT:0px;PADDING-RIGHT:0px;PADDING-TOP:0px">2012/2/14 Deirdre Williams <span><<a href="mailto:williams.deirdre@gmail.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">williams.deirdre@gmail.com</a>></span><br>
>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT:#cccccc 1px solid;MARGIN:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;PADDING-LEFT:1ex">
<div><span>I should have sent this to the list yesterday.</span></div>
<div><span>Sorry it's so long.</span></div>
<div><span>Deirdre</span></div>
<div><span><br>> </span></div>
<div><span>Comments from me and on submissions made by others:</span></div>
<div><span>There appears to be a need to change perspective. There has been a shift so that now development is not only an issue between countries – north and south – but can also be a stratification issue within countries – a rich developed top layer and a poor underdeveloped lower layer both in the north and in the south. This needs to be recognised.</span></div>
<div><span> </span></div>
<div><span>Remote participation (RP) needs an improved status. This is both a technology issue and a recognition issue. The technology must make it possible, and the recognition should as far as possible give it equal status. There also need to be excellent remote participation moderators to act as interface at meetings. And the issue of linguistic inclusion also needs to be addressed with the possibility of several moderators covering several different languages. I know this is a lot to ask for but equality is not just an Anglophone quality. Perhaps initially willing face to face participants could be ‘conscripted’ to provide inclusion in their various languages.</span></div>
<div><span> </span></div>
<div><span>ISOC</span></div>
<div><span> </span></div>
<div><span>Remote participation</span></div>
<div><span>The growth in the number of remote hubs and the increase of remote participants that </span></div>
<div><span>went with remote hubs is a basis to build on to overcome the challenge and cost </span></div>
<div><span>of travel to attend meetings. – agree 100%</span></div>
<div><span> </span></div>
<div><span>National Regional IGFs</span></div>
<div><span>There is a need to enhance the exchange of reports between these two interfaces to </span></div>
<div><span>continue and grow going forward. – definitely – perhaps a mechanism to do this could be set up – or encouraged and improved?</span></div>
<div><span> </span></div>
<div><span>Funding</span></div>
<div><span>This model acts as a feedback mechanism, demonstrating that the IGF is of value to its participants. – I have grave concerns where value is always equated with money.</span></div>
<div><span> </span></div>
<div><span>we view the Internet as an enabler for a wide range of human rights, such as the right to freedom of expression and opinion and access to information and knowledge as well as the right to association - agree</span></div>
<div><span> </span></div>
<div><span>filtering be part of the main agenda of the 2012 IGF. DNS filtering is increasingly used by governments to combat allegedly illegal online activities, and this technical measure raises strong concerns, not only with regard to the underlying Internet architecture, but also with regard to due legal process and human rights, while not solving the problems at their source. – this is certainly an issue, but I also find John Carr’s arguments re blocking in the context of child pornography very convincing. How to reconcile the unreconcilable?</span></div>
<div><span> </span></div>
<div><span>APC</span></div>
<div><span>In Nairobi, a concrete proposal to create a global internet governance body was put on the</span></div>
<div><span>table by governments from developing countries (the IBSA proposal) , which resulted in</span></div>
<div><span>exactly the kind of intense and diverse debate that the IGF was created for. APC applauds this kind of active agenda-setting of developing countries as a positive step to counteract exclusion and the predominance of developed country agendas as the typical starting points for discussion. </span></div>
<div><span>However as we see it the question about the best way to discuss development in relation to internet governance remains unanswered – this is what triggered my first comment (see above) </span></div>
<div><span style="COLOR:red">(Change the perspective – not so much countries, more social strata)</span></div>
<div><span> </span></div>
<div><span>The need for clearly-defined rules within which to operate, and an appropriate level of</span></div>
<div><span>transparency was also highlighted - yes</span></div>
<div><span> </span></div>
<div><span>if data discrimination for mobile internet is a technical necessity, then policy-makers must define and clearly outline the principles for governing such practices. – yes, and there should be general harmonisation of policy as much as possible. </span></div>
<div><span> </span></div>
<div><span>However, high prices remain a problem. Electricity is still widely unavailable and mobile phones are often prohibitively expensive for the poorest in society, and prices for mobile subscriptions are artificially high due to licensing fees and competition issues. There is an urgent need for these critical barriers to universal mobile internet to be addressed through communications policy and strategy – yes. At least in Saint Lucia there is a government tax of 15% on mobile services – a very healthy revenue generator.</span></div>
<div><span> </span></div>
<div><span>the issue of conflict minerals needs to be on the agenda for the next IGF. Policy-makers must establish clear guidelines and legislation that address issues of traceability, accountability and responsibility in the mineral procurement chain. – this also needs greater public awareness. Can this be taken together with the issue of ICT waste and recycling?</span></div>
<div><span> </span></div>
<div><span>internet intermediary liability, the impact of restrictions on freedom of expression and association, and responding to violence against women online. - yes</span></div>
<div><span> </span></div>
<div><span>freedom of association online needs to be assigned the same level of importance as freedom of expression has in IGF debates. Indeed the two are inextricably linked and interdependent. - YES</span></div>
<div><span> </span></div>
<div><span>Balance between intellectual property rights and access to knowledge -YES</span></div>
<div><span> </span></div>
<div><span>Disparities in access between rich and poor, urban and rural areas serve to exacerbate existing social inequalities. – see my first point above</span></div>
<div><span> </span></div>
<div><span>human rights be the main theme of IGF in 2012 – good idea</span></div>
<div><span> </span></div>
<div><span>internet access as a human right, freedom of expression and freedom of association. </span></div>
<div><span>Human rights topics which became visible for the first time at the IGF included:</span></div>
<div><span>• a human rights approach to mobile</span></div>
<div><span>• remedies for internet rights violations</span></div>
<div><span>• human rights and corporate responsibility</span></div>
<div><span>• the rights of disabled people and young people.</span></div>
<div><span> </span></div>
<div><span style="COLOR:red">(who speaks for whom? Profile of mag; consider the person or consider the ideas; do outward and visible signs automatically contain the inferred inward and spiritual grace? In other words how to balance the individual profile of the representative with the broader profile of the constituency represented)</span></div>
<div><span style="COLOR:red"> </span></div>
<div><span>Human rights is the framework with which we judge the merits of ICT policy. To us internet governance has to assume a rights-based framework. Business and technical decisions do not exist in a vacuum; they must be informed and measured by respect for the rights and wellbeing of the people who will be using technology</span></div>
<div><span>We need more cross-pollination between business, law enforcement, civil society and the</span></div>
<div><span>technical communities. Rather than talking about each other, we should be speaking to each other – YES AND YES AND YES</span></div>
<div><span> </span></div>
<div><span>NRO</span></div>
<div><span>Remote Participation was improved in 2011 compared to 2010, but there is still much to be </span></div>
<div><span>done to improve this important tool for strengthening accessibility. – see above</span></div>
<div><span>• Continue to encourage Regional Hubs and support greater direct participation between them </span></div>
<div><span>and the IGF sessions in order to allow a bidirectional flow of discussions – see above</span></div>
<div><span> </span></div>
<div><span>Build a link between Regional IG discussions and the MAG for feedback and information </span></div>
<div><span>Sharing – see above</span></div><span><font color="#888888">
<div><span> </span></div>
<div><span> </span></div>
<div style="PADDING-BOTTOM:0px;MARGIN:0px;PADDING-LEFT:0px;PADDING-RIGHT:0px;PADDING-TOP:0px"><br>> </div>-- <br>> “The fundamental cure for poverty is not money but knowledge" Sir William Arthur Lewis, Nobel Prize Economics, 1979<br>
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<br></div></div></blockquote></div><div><div class="h5"><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br>“The fundamental cure for poverty is not money but knowledge" Sir William Arthur Lewis, Nobel Prize Economics, 1979<br>
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<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br><div>Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala</div><div><br></div><div>Tweeter: @SalanietaT</div><div>Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro</div><div>Cell: +679 998 2851</div><div>
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