<html><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div><div>On Nov 13, 2011, at 11:49 PM, John Curran wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div><div>On Nov 13, 2011, at 9:37 PM, David Allen wrote:</div><blockquote type="cite"><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div><blockquote type="cite"><div>So do you believe that the following report (including the completed actions to date) is not accurate, or for some reason does the implementation that has occurred not count?<br><br><<a href="http://www.icann.org/en/accountability/atrt-implementation-summary-24oct11-en.pdf">http://www.icann.org/en/accountability/atrt-implementation-summary-24oct11-en.pdf</a>><br></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><div>As to this additional question:</div><div><br></div><div>The context here concerns - among others - sometimes-years of bottoms-up volunteer effort that is effectively ignored and, instead, preemptively overruled with staff decisions.</div><div><br></div><div>While I am glad to have the link to the pdf, there is nothing there - that I can see - suggesting the core concern is ameliorated, or even broached for consideration.</div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div></div></div></blockquote><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Helvetica; "><blockquote type="cite" style="color: rgb(5, 79, 176); ">I don't know if it addresses your "core concern" or not, but I take the report (and the efforts represented in it) as affirmative evidence on the question of whether some system weaknesses in accountability and transparency are being corrected as a result of community feedback.</blockquote><span class="Apple-style-span" style="background-color: transparent;"><br></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Helvetica; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="background-color: transparent;">Indeed, we could hope that is so. For, as said, some 'system weaknesses.'</span></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Helvetica; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="background-color: transparent;"><br></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Helvetica; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="background-color: transparent;">Then, ...</span></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Helvetica; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="background-color: transparent;"><br></span></div><blockquote type="cite"><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><blockquote type="cite"><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div><blockquote type="cite"><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div><blockquote type="cite"><div lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple"><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; "><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">There are system weaknesses that may be corrected with the transparent monitoring and review through the public feedback about the direct influence reflected on decisions of the external public services.</span></div></div></div></blockquote></div><div><br></div><div>_Long_ years - and years - of experience make clear that this most decidedly is not so.</div></div></blockquote></div></div></blockquote><br></div></blockquote><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Helvetica; color: rgb(5, 79, 176); "></div><blockquote type="cite"><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Helvetica; color: rgb(5, 79, 176); ">Past experience can be (at best) a predictor of present behavior; such predictions are only one data point to be considered (in addition to present day actions) when judging whether the problem will continue on or whether the situation will improve. I do believe we reference the same ideas and facts, but differ on the analysis and therefore probable outcome.</div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Few would disagree, I believe, that the past is only some indicator of future outcomes. As a general proposition.</div><div><br></div><div>However. Each case brings its own context.</div><div><br></div><div>In a case such as this, there are views 'from within,' then there are views watching 'from without.'</div><div><br></div><div>From those within, it seems we would hope for optimistic expectations. Otherwise it is hard to see any prospect at all.</div><div><br></div><div>However, those without see an accumulated history. Experience, regularly repeated, has shown reviews sloughed off perfunctorily. With, all the while, regular protestations that 'this time will be different.' But it wasn't. Repeatedly.</div><div><br></div><div>In such a case, those without are - as the saying goes, in the US - 'from Missouri.' Meaning that they say, 'Show me.' (Don't tell me.)</div><div><br></div><div>A followup noted:</div><div><br></div><div><div>On Nov 14, 2011, at 3:08 AM, Norbert Bollow wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div>I'd s<span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(5, 79, 176); font-size: 12px; ">ay that it's impossible to determine whether the system weaknesses are actually being corrected until it's possible to look at the results of this process.</span></div></blockquote><div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(5, 79, 176); font-size: 12px; "><br></span></div></div></div><div>In the case at hand, the stakes are the whole ball game, where some 'without' are busily investigating alternatives.</div><div><br></div><div>At stake are</div><div><br></div><div>-- ICANN's principal claim to make a global contribution, namely multistakeholderism. But the signature vehicle to deliver MS - bottoms-up participation - has disenfranchised exactly those supposed to be in the hunt, when staff decisions dismiss and counter their work.</div><div><br></div><div>-- The attractant for global legitimacy, even for otherwise skeptical states: a public service model, where all legitimate interests are treated evenhandedly. When, instead, there is a corruption of interests (a 'conflict of interest,' a phrase that was among text recently quoted from the EU, is another more polite form).</div><div><br></div><div>Of course for some prospect of change, that which might change first has to become explicit, on the agenda. These two items, vital to health of the enterprise, are not presented in the process underway.</div><div><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Helvetica; color: rgb(5, 79, 176); ">/John</div></blockquote><div><br></div></div>David</body></html>