<html><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div><div>On Nov 13, 2011, at 5:21 PM, John Curran wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div>On Nov 13, 2011, at 1:40 PM, David Allen wrote:<br><br><blockquote type="cite">B), modified - as the original noted:<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">This is only the last in a long series of reviews and criticisms, over several years. ICANN has brushed off each of those reviews, with perfunctory acknowledgement. Over years. Years.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">When the track record is so clear, protestations that 'things will be different this time,' just don't cut it. Only action.<br></blockquote><br></div></blockquote><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Helvetica; "><blockquote type="cite" style="color: rgb(5, 79, 176); ">I haven't indicated things will be different this time. </blockquote><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Helvetica; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="background-color: transparent;"><br></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Helvetica; ">My post was in response to the request for basis. Its discussion aimed to elucidate the thinking. Re the immediately above, i.e., "action, as opposed to words," that was hoped to help understand the thinking about why the "B" category and how modified. (For reference, the full exchange is quoted below.)</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Helvetica; "><br></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Helvetica; ">(The 'protestations' had nothing to do with the query, or the person asking in the exchange - again, quoted below. Yes, online text can be ambiguous, when folks are not able to sit down with each other.</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Helvetica; "><br></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Helvetica; ">(As said otherwise, discussion is about ideas, not about individuals, which otherwise can veer over into ad hominem. )</div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="background-color: transparent;"><br></span><blockquote type="cite" style="color: rgb(5, 79, 176); ">I am simply asking for the your basis for suggesting that ICANN will not implement the results of the ATRT review.</blockquote></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Helvetica; color: rgb(5, 79, 176); "><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: medium; "><br></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: medium; ">And as far as I can see, I provided just what was asked for ... in the query, to wit:</div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: medium; "><br></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: medium; ">John Curran asked: (again, see below for full context)<br><blockquote type="cite">I'd like to understand the analytic basis of your premise ...</blockquote></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: medium; "><br></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: medium; ">As you have quoted here, my basis is manifest.</div><div><br></div></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><blockquote type="cite">Again, history and facts are determinative. Including future history, when and as it may come to pass.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">This is a case where _only_ results, finally, can overcome the stain of a past record. Not protestations.<br></blockquote><br>So do you believe that the following report (including the completed actions to date) is not accurate, or for some reason does the implementation that has occurred not count?<br><br><<a href="http://www.icann.org/en/accountability/atrt-implementation-summary-24oct11-en.pdf">http://www.icann.org/en/accountability/atrt-implementation-summary-24oct11-en.pdf</a>><br></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><div>As to this additional question:</div><div><br></div><div>The context here concerns - among others - sometimes-years of bottoms-up volunteer effort that is effectively ignored and, instead, preemptively overruled with staff decisions.</div><div><br></div><div>While I am glad to have the link to the pdf, there is nothing there - that I can see - suggesting the core concern is ameliorated, or even broached for consideration.</div><div><br></div><div>Also, notably, the area evincing the hot-button of relations with the other 'outside world,' GAC, has (except in only one item) no timeline or entries, only 'TBD.'</div><blockquote type="cite"></blockquote></div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div>Thanks,<br>/John</div></blockquote><br></div><div>The case rests.</div><div><br></div><div>Thanks, David</div><div>______</div><div><br></div><div>quote, for reference:</div><div><br></div><div><div><div>On Nov 13, 2011, at 12:58 PM, John Curran wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div><div>On Nov 13, 2011, at 12:37 PM, David Allen wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div>Since discussion advances with evidence and logic, let's take the next steps with facts and analysis.</div><div><br></div>Quoting from below, in reverse and various order.<div><br></div><div><blockquote type="cite"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple"><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; "><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">There are system weaknesses that may be corrected with the transparent monitoring and review through the public feedback about the direct influence reflected on decisions of the external public services.</span></div></div></div></span></blockquote></div><div><br></div><div>_Long_ years - and years - of experience make clear that this most decidedly is not so.</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div>Strange. The most recent effort in this area was the ATRT review:</div><div><<a href="http://www.icann.org/en/accountability/atrt-report-25jun11-en.pdf">http://www.icann.org/en/accountability/atrt-report-25jun11-en.pdf</a>></div><div><br></div><div>Are you suggesting that: A) The ATRT review did not identify the key changes </div><div>necessary to provide the necessary accountability and transparency, or B) that</div><div>ICANN is not going to implement the results in an effective manner, or C) some </div><div>other reason why the ability of the community to correct ICANN's weaknesses</div><div>in these areas "most decidedly is not so" ?</div><div><br></div><div>I'd like to understand the analytic basis of your premise in light of the most recent </div><div>ATRT review and action item followup activity.</div><div><br></div><div>Thanks!</div><div>/John</div></div></blockquote><br></div><div>Thanks.</div><div><br></div><div>B), modified - as the original noted:</div><div><br></div><div>This is only the last in a long series of reviews and criticisms, over several years. ICANN has brushed off each of those reviews, with perfunctory acknowledgement. Over years. Years.</div><div><br></div><div>When the track record is so clear, protestations that 'things will be different this time,' just don't cut it. Only action.</div><div><br></div><div>Again, history and facts are determinative. Including future history, when and as it may come to pass.</div><div><br></div><div>This is a case where _only_ results, finally, can overcome the stain of a past record. Not protestations.</div><div><br></div><div>Thanks, David</div><div><br></div></div><br></body></html>