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On Thursday 22 September 2011 02:38 AM, Milton L Mueller wrote:
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Courier New"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Courier New"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Parminder
sez in response to Drake:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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style="border-style: none none none solid; border-color: -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color blue; border-width: medium medium medium 1.5pt; padding: 0in 0in 0in 4pt;">
<p class="MsoNormal">No idea, what you wanted to elicit and what was
Alvaro and others not forthcoming about. As you know, Brazilians
sponsored a main session on enhanced cooperation at the IGF, when i
really dont remember any special enthusiasm for such a discussion of
many civil society members <span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><i><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Courier New"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><i><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Courier New"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">[Milton
L Mueller] Really? </span></i></b></p>
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<br>
Milton, you are labouring to respond to the point I never made
(including using bad language in your previous email).<br>
<br>
I *never* said that 'Milton' opposed or resisted a discussion on
enhanced cooperation (EC), or more generally on International public
policy mechanisms. Can you go back to my email and show me where I said
this about 'MIlton'.<br>
<br>
In face of sudden flurry of emails claiming governments of the South do
not want to discuss EC openly, especially at the IGF, I responded by
showing that it was not governments of the South but many other actors
who blocked/ resisted such an attempt. Is it not a fact? I also said
that *many* civil society actors now suddenly very alive to the need of
dicussing EC in the IGF, did not seem so eager earlier on, when
attempts to get the EC subject on IGF agenda was made. This is also a
fact. and I needed to state these facts in face of this new onslaught
about the evilness of developing country governments (and, perhaps,
also other civil society members) when it was simply not based on facts
(and, more importantly for me, served the agenda of protecting the
global IG status quo).<br>
<br>
<b>Now, it is now possible for me to put the 'Milton exception
disclaimer' in everything I say.</b> One swallow does not make a
summer. I know you have been keen on, more or less, any discussion in
the IGF. I know we worked together for the IGF workshop on Framework
convention on the Internet (though you now seem to have changed views
on that, which, though a different question, I did raise in my email,
and i dont say people dont have the right to change views). We worked
together in the dynamic colation on Internet frameworks of
principles... and yes, I exactly remember your contribution to the EC
discussion in Hyderabad, and also remember precisely which part of the
hall you were sitting in. This is quite beside the larger point. Though
of course you have a right to bring on record your historical
positions. <br>
<br>
I will respond to the substantive points separately. <br>
<br>
parminder <br>
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cite="mid:75822E125BCB994F8446858C4B19F0D717549372EC@SUEX07-MBX-04.ad.syr.edu"
type="cite">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><i><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Courier New"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><i><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Courier New"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><i><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Courier New"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Just
for fun, I dug up the transcript and you will see below my intervention
and the response of the U.S. State Dept representative.<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><i><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Courier New"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Note
also that I specifically tried to get a statement from Parminder, but
for some reason (cough) the moderator moved on.<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><i><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Courier New"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><i><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Courier New"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><Hyderabad
IGF Main session on “Arrangements for Internet Governance.” <o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><i><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Courier New"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.intgovforum.org/cms/hyderabad_prog/AfIGGN.html">http://www.intgovforum.org/cms/hyderabad_prog/AfIGGN.html</a><o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><i><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Courier New"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><i><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Courier New"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">>>EMILY
TAYLOR: Thank you very much. Milton, do you have a question?<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><i><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Courier New"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">>>MILTON
MUELLER: Yes, I do. I actually have a question.<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 5.25pt;"><b><i><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Courier New"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Okay.
We have two distinct concepts of enhanced cooperation up here. The one
that I understood was articulated by Mr. Lucero and to some extent by
Parminder Singh, saying, to put it in a concrete context, that
…enhanced cooperation was trying to solve the problem of governmental
role in Internet policy-making. And Mr. Lucero proposed a specific
principle which I thought was very interesting, and I'd like to hear
Mr. Beaird's and Mr. Singh's reaction to it. [Lucero] said if
governments are not involved, such as in IETF or the NRO, that's fine.
But if governments are – if you have an international organization
which only one government or a select group of governments is involved,
that's a problem, that's something that enhanced cooperation should be
trying to fix.<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 5.25pt;"><b><i><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Courier New"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 5.25pt;"><b><i><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Courier New"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">>>EMILY
TAYLOR: Dick, would you like to react to that? So the challenge is
that only a few or even one government is involved.<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 5.25pt;"><b><i><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Courier New"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Can
I have your comments, please?<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 5.25pt;"><b><i><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Courier New"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 5.25pt;"><b><i><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Courier New"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">>>RICHARD
BEAIRD: Thank you very much.<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 10.5pt;"><b><i><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Courier New"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">The
view that I take in this is that if we have learned anything as a
result of the WSIS process and our experience since 2005, is that it's
precisely much more complex than to articulate a problem as we did in
2003, that there is a one-country problem. In fact, what we're dealing
with -- and here I come back -- which I think the 39 ministers that met
in Seoul, including representative from Brazil, which may not have
signed the declaration, but was there, understood, which is that we're
talking about an Internet economy, which is a much broader concept than
we had previously, which is certainly much more -- broader than simply
talking about domain names.<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 5.25pt;"><b><i><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Courier New"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Domain
names is a facilitator, is a tool within that economy. Governments are
engaged in this process at every level. And my dear friend Everton has
given us some excellent examples of where governments are involved. Let
me give you one more point to add to this, which is that -- the point
being is that governments are involved at every level of the Internet
because it is now, we understand, to be an Internet economy. But,
further, if there is one thing we also learned from the WSIS process,
when governments came together in 2005, the one thing that dominates
the documents that are there, both out of Geneva, but certainly out of
Tunis, It's e-government. <o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><i><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Courier New"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">It's
how the Internet, used by governments -- and, by the way, governments
by all studies are the early adopters of applications and uses of the
Internet -- is making possible services that had not been made possible
before, prior to the Internet. And that governments, when they came
together at the highest levels said this is probably the most important
thing for us to talk about. And I think that's the point that needs to
be made over and over again in these discussions, which happen at fora
such as the IGF which may be rather focused, is that the world outside,
in every region of the world, governments are engaged. And that at
every level of society, governments, civil society, and the private
sector, they are all engaged, and they will find their own level of
engagement depending upon their cultural and political context. So my
response is that be more positive and be more observant of what, in
fact, has happened, and understand that we are all now a part of the
Internet economy. <o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><i><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Courier New"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><i><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Courier New"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><end
transcript> <o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><i><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Courier New"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><i><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Courier New"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Now
from that exchange I draw 5 conclusions:<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent: -0.25in;"><!--[if !supportLists]--><b><i><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Courier New"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><span
style="">1)<span
style="font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system-font: none;">
</span></span></span></i></b><!--[endif]--><b><i><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Courier New"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">There
were 2 views of EC as an issue to be discussed expressed on that panel,
one of them the “hard” focus on the role of states, the other the mushy
one that considers any post-WSIS dialogue to be EC.<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent: -0.25in;"><!--[if !supportLists]--><b><i><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Courier New"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><span
style="">2)<span
style="font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system-font: none;">
</span></span></span></i></b><!--[endif]--><b><i><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Courier New"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">It
should be evident from the above which one of those 2 views I took: I
eagerly embraced discussing the harder approach<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent: -0.25in;"><!--[if !supportLists]--><b><i><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Courier New"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><span
style="">3)<span
style="font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system-font: none;">
</span></span></span></i></b><!--[endif]--><b><i><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Courier New"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">I
was not uncomfortable with a robust discussion of EC, as Parminder and
Everton Lucero (then of govt of Brazil) understood it<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent: -0.25in;"><!--[if !supportLists]--><b><i><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Courier New"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><span
style="">4)<span
style="font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system-font: none;">
</span></span></span></i></b><!--[endif]--><b><i><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Courier New"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">The
US govt was _very_ uncomfortable with that issue and tried to divert it
to a discussion of e-government<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent: -0.25in;"><!--[if !supportLists]--><b><i><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Courier New"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><span
style="">5)<span
style="font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system-font: none;">
</span></span></span></i></b><!--[endif]--><b><i><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Courier New"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">I
was willing to confront the USG on this<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><i><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Courier New"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><i><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Courier New"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">So.
What are we to make of Parminder’s posturing as an oppressed developing
world innocent ignored if not trampled by Northern hegemonists in civil
society? It is a bit hard to swallow. It seems to me to be a
self-reinforcing act of divisiveness. <o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><i><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Courier New"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><i><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Courier New"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">To
press further, the discussion of EC makes it clear that one can
“equalize” the imbalance in governments’ role either by making
governance more “inter-national” (i.e. intergovernmental) or by
“de-nationalizing” it (i.</span></i></b> <b><i><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Courier New"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">e.,
relying on organically developed institutions). Lucero made comments
directly and astutely recognizing that option. Parminder didn’t. Why is
the de-nationalizing option never recognized and discussed by
Parminder? Why is it always framed as North vs. South instead? Is it
because you want to pit South against North so you can ride a wave of
resentment into some new form of global power? Or are your politics
about creating a just, free, flexible regime of global Internet
governance that can be supported by anyone in any world
region/economy/etc.? <o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><i><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Courier New"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></i></b></p>
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