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On Sunday 18 September 2011 05:05 PM, William Drake wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:460E128A-D91B-436B-986C-6092064651E2@uzh.ch"
type="cite">Hi Marilia
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I'm glad to see this initiative finally coming out into the
sunlight, as there hasn't been much publicly accessible information on
what you folks have been up to.</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
"what you folks have been up to!!!"<br>
<br>
Bill, you are holding your nose, rather than do a discussion, but lets
get on.... (the hegemony of discourse, with the 'obvious' good
world/people versus evil world/ people distinctions)<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:460E128A-D91B-436B-986C-6092064651E2@uzh.ch"
type="cite">
<div> I've raised it at several events, including a WSIS Forum
workshop I organized (which included Alvaro from the Brazilian
government), but have been unable to elicit much discussion from any
side.</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
No idea, what you wanted to elicit and what was Alvaro and others not
forthcoming about. As you know, Brazilians sponsored a main session on
enhanced cooperation at the IGF, when i really dont remember any
special enthusiasm for such a discussion of many civil society members
who now seem outraged that developing countries dont want to discuss
Internet-related public policy mechanisms openly... This is entirely a
made up thing.... Instead, who did not want to discuss what kind of
things openly at the IGF, and which government were their supporters,
if often publicly silent, is rather well known. <br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:460E128A-D91B-436B-986C-6092064651E2@uzh.ch"
type="cite">
<div> While I don't favor UN-based intergovernmental control, </div>
</blockquote>
<br>
When OECD does it, it is 'policy making', and the civil society
enthusiastically engages with it, when UN seeks to do it, it is
'control' . This is amusing!! The power of the discourse!!<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:460E128A-D91B-436B-986C-6092064651E2@uzh.ch"
type="cite">
<div>the idea's been floating in the wind and configuring perceptions
and dialogue for so long that it would be useful to finally hear the
proponents get up in public and make their case about what problems
require such a solution,</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
Exactly the same problems that OECD, CoE etc think 'require a
solution', and are intensively working on; to whose work in this area,
there never seems to have been an objection. Every of their document
speaks of urgent need of frameworks of principles, global agreements
etc. The same problems, and similar sought solutions, just more
democratic and inclusive.....<br>
<br>
I have thrown this challenge at 'you guys' - to borrow your term -
often in this list but without response, and I repeat it. <br>
<br>
<b><big><small>On what basis do you oppose, say, if the EXACT
mechanism that OECD follows<br>
<br>
in policy making, framework development, etc in the area of
international internet-related public policies, with its exact
mechanisms of multi-stakeholder participation also thrown in, <br>
<br>
was to instituted in the UN</small>....</big> which simply means it
would be democratic, a prime civil society value, i would think......</b><br>
<br>
It is by answering clearly such direct questions, and getting into a
full debate over them that constitutes openness and transparency, not
just by using the power of the dominant discourse and vocabulary to
condemn others to evilness of being closed and non-transparent, and
arrogating to oneself all the corresponding good qualities....<br>
<br>
parminder <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:460E128A-D91B-436B-986C-6092064651E2@uzh.ch"
type="cite">
<div> how it could possibly work, why the benefits would outweigh the
costs, how consensus could be achieved and how you'd proceed if it
cannot, and so on. That certainly did not happen within the WGIG with
respect to the three "oversight" models some of the government reps put
on the table (which, BTW, the caucus strongly opposed at the time). It
would be better to finally have an open multistakeholder debate on the
merits than for the IBSA governments to take it to their summit and
into the UN GA without the benefit of this reality check.</div>
<div>
<div></div>
<br>
<div>
<div>On Sep 18, 2011, at 6:27 AM, Marilia Maciel wrote:</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<div class="gmail_quote"><font class="Apple-style-span"
color="#000000"><br>
</font>
<div>2) During the next IGF, government representatives have
accepted to take part in several workshops organized by CS that are
discussing IGF improvement, when they will certainly be able to talk
about IBSA's aims. So the discussion will not bypass the IGF as you
said. I hope you will be there to raise your issues. </div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>There will be more opportunities than this. For example, I
intend to raise it again in the main session on CIR, which I'm
co-moderating with Emily Taylor, and in my workshop on institutional
choice in GIG <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.intgovforum.org/cms/component/chronocontact/?chronoformname=WSProposals2011View&wspid=178">http://www.intgovforum.org/cms/component/chronocontact/?chronoformname=WSProposals2011View&wspid=178</a>,
which is a feeder for the CIR session. Tulika from the Indian
government will be speaking on both, as will Alice, Anriette, and Fiona
(plus others here who are on or the other, e.g. Avri, Jeanette,
Patrik..). So let's get it out in the open and hear what people have
to say either way. While such a debate will be divisive, a UN GA
proposal that hasn't been openly debated would be much more so.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Cheers,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Bill</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
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***************************************************<br>
William J. Drake<br>
International Fellow<br>
Media Change & Innovation Division, IPMZ<br>
University of Zurich, Switzerland<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:william.drake@uzh.ch">william.drake@uzh.ch</a></div>
<div style="word-wrap: break-word;"><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.mediachange.ch/people/william-j-drake">www.mediachange.ch/people/william-j-drake</a><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.williamdrake.org">www.williamdrake.org</a><br>
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