<html><head></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Parminder:</div><div><br></div><div>I have been member of the IGF MAG since the beginning and It is not true that the Internet technical community has opposed to discuss about the concept of Enhanced Cooperation. I myself have participated in many discussion in the IGF in workshops and also in the plenary sessions about EC, and the NRO has never opposed neither we oppose to have such discussion in IGF. </div><div><br></div><div> </div><div>Raúl </div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><br><div><div>El 18/09/2011, a las 13:54, parminder escribió:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite">
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<font face="sans-serif">Dear Milton,<br>
<br>
This will be a long (though very welcome) discussion and it catches me
at a particular bad time, but let me jump in....<br>
</font><br>
On Saturday 17 September 2011 11:52 PM, Milton L Mueller wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:75822E125BCB994F8446858C4B19F0D71754937255@SUEX07-MBX-04.ad.syr.edu" type="cite">
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<div class="WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Courier New"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Some
first reactions to the IBSA proposal. You will not be hearing any
applause from me. The proposal is unimaginative, backward-looking, and
authoritarian. If it were actually implemented, which is highly
unlikely, the proposal would be very destructive. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Courier New"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Courier New"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">One
notable and surprising thing: IBSA has bypassed the IGF. By putting
forward this proposal in the way it has, IBSA has openly declared that
it does not put any credibility or legitimacy in the IGF as a forum for
multistakeholder Internet policy development or discussion. This is
true because the IBSA proposal was developed outside of IGF in an
exclusive club of countries, and will not be put forward formally at
the IGF. Rather, it will be developed at the closed IBSA summit, and
then taken directly to the UN General Assembly. </span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
Marilia and Carlos have said thing in this regard. But let me put
forward some facts to you. Discussion on 'enhanced cooperation' was
blocked by the MAG, its most powerful constituencies of business
sector, technical sector, Northern govs et al, and not by developing
countries. In the run up to the Rio IGF, during the May open
consultations, it was declared by the chair of the MAG that EC
disucssion neither belonged in the MAG nor in the IGF, and the two
tracks are to kept seperate. (This was backed by the above mentioned
groups, though it is entirely a different matter that after two years
when EC actually got discussed in the IGF they changed their strategy
and suddenly discovered that instead of being seperate tracks they were
in fact the 'same thing'.) When ITfC proposed a workshop on EC for
Hyderabad IGF, it was officially refused and we were told that EC
shouldnt be discussed in the IGF. We approached Brazil and they ensured
that instead of a workshop EC was discussed in a plenary session. I
remember clearly the coldness towards an EC discussion at the IGF of so
many civil society actors that are now wondering about why EC was not
discussed at the IGF. Surprise. Surprise. Earlier Brazil made some
'bold' statements in the Rio IGF opening ceremony about looking for new
directions in global IGF, for which it was almost universally made to
look like an 'untouchable'. So, it is very very interesting that now
Brazil and other countries are being told that they ignore the IGF,
especially in terms of discussing global public policy mechanisms. Isnt
it diffuct to discuss thing with people who refuse to discuss things.
And that now some of them can turn back and say; why did you not
discuss these things, is a testimony to the hegemonic control that is
exercised on the whole arena, and rules, of discourse. <br>
<br>
On the other hand, Milton why does it not surprise you when US comes
out with the International strategy for cyberspace without raising it
first at the IGF, ditto for OECD (shaping a bold new extra legal and
extra territorial IP enforcement regime), and for EU etc. The
background paper of ITfC for the Rio meeting describes all the global
IG policy making that is going on in and among the countires of the
North.<br>
<br>
It is the policies made by these countries and forums that run the
Internet today, these pronouncements are all about global IG, and the
IBSA effort is just to seek a democratic seat at the table... So your
surprise, i must say, is rather politically well informed. <br>
<blockquote cite="mid:75822E125BCB994F8446858C4B19F0D71754937255@SUEX07-MBX-04.ad.syr.edu" type="cite">
<div class="WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Courier New"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Courier New"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Courier New"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">This
is unacceptable to civil society. It excludes us from the entire
process. IBSA needs to be asked why it has chosen not to use a MS
forum, a forum its members helped to create, to gain agreement for this
proposal.</span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
I understand that they will be happy to seek views. The current IBSA
statement says it will take in multistakeholder views. Marilia's and my
organisation are holding a workshop on insituional gaps in global IG.
All are welcome. IBSA sought a global Internet related policy forum in
December 2010 at EC consultations, then reiterated the call in their
statement to annual ECOSOC meeting in July 2010. So the thing has been
in the public domain for quite a while. IGC is welcome to discuss it.
Has been welcome<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:75822E125BCB994F8446858C4B19F0D71754937255@SUEX07-MBX-04.ad.syr.edu" type="cite">
<div class="WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Courier New"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Courier New"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Courier New"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">The
IBSA report says that “the models proposed by the WGIG provided useful
guidelines” for a new global Internet governance body. This is a
strange statement. There were four different models proposed in the
WGIG report, and most of them were inconsistent with each other. One of
the WGIG proposals explicitly stated that no new global body was
needed. So perhaps IBSA is trying to pretend that its proposal has some
kind of imprimatur from the WGIG or the WSIS. It doesn’t. WGIG couldn’t
agree on any of those models, that was the point of listing 4 of them.</span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
The statement just say the models provide useful guidelines... I do see
them providing useful guidelines, for those who may want to go down one
path or the other.<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:75822E125BCB994F8446858C4B19F0D71754937255@SUEX07-MBX-04.ad.syr.edu" type="cite">
<div class="WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Courier New"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Courier New"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Courier New"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">The
specific duties of the new global body make up an interesting list. It
will be “tasked to develop and establish international public
policies.” So it makes the same stupid mistake that governments have
been making all along: it is law, i.e. rules, not “policy” that is
needed.</span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
OECD's Committee for ICCP makes Internet related policies, and I have
witnessed your enthusiastic participation in the process, and never
heard you badmouth the process. Milton, can you be a littlemore fair
to the less powerful,<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:75822E125BCB994F8446858C4B19F0D71754937255@SUEX07-MBX-04.ad.syr.edu" type="cite">
<div class="WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Courier New"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">
Policy just means that a gang of governments attempts to dictate
outcomes, or alter outcomes whenever something happens that they don’t
like. Law on the other hand provides a framework of clear rules that
allows individual actors guidelines and which also protects freedom. </span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
So, then shd we together seek a global framework convention on the
Internet, an idea which did interest you once?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:75822E125BCB994F8446858C4B19F0D71754937255@SUEX07-MBX-04.ad.syr.edu" type="cite">
<div class="WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Courier New"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Courier New"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Courier New"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">And
here’s my favorite. IBSA proposes to “integrate and oversee the bodies
responsible for technical and operational functioning of the internet,
including global standards setting.” So IBSA is not only proposing to
take over regulation of all the world’s internet service providers,
hosting providers, mobile networks, and perhaps even equipment
suppliers, it proposes to “integrate and oversee” the IETF as well.
Presumably ICANN, too. No rationale for such a dramatic change is put
forward. </span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
I already judged that there was a unfortunate drafting here. I know
that it is not the intention to seek any overhaul of theexisting
system. The Dec 2010 IBSA statement says so much and I think also 2011
ECOSOC one. What was meant, in my understanding, where the word
'integrate' is used was something like map and overview..... with a
view to provide pubic interest oversight wherever necessary and
required (as US gov provides in many cases at present). But I think it
is a good feedback to give that the term 'integrate' simply doesnt
sound too good here. <br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:75822E125BCB994F8446858C4B19F0D71754937255@SUEX07-MBX-04.ad.syr.edu" type="cite">
<div class="WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Courier New"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Courier New"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Courier New"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">This
proposal will fail to gain support from most of the internet-using
civil society,</span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
You dont seem to have a good idea of how politically conscious and
active civil society in developing countries see the democratic deficit
issue vis a vis global governance. And, another minor point, we seek to
represent interests of both internet using and non user groups. <br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:75822E125BCB994F8446858C4B19F0D71754937255@SUEX07-MBX-04.ad.syr.edu" type="cite">
<div class="WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Courier New"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">
it will be adamantly opposed by the technical community, and it will
have very little support from the academic community.</span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
again, a presumption.<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:75822E125BCB994F8446858C4B19F0D71754937255@SUEX07-MBX-04.ad.syr.edu" type="cite">
<div class="WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Courier New"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">
Needless to say, all Internet businesses will oppose it,</span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
they oppose your proposal to strengthen IGF into a soft power body as
well. So? <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:75822E125BCB994F8446858C4B19F0D71754937255@SUEX07-MBX-04.ad.syr.edu" type="cite">
<div class="WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Courier New"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">
and so will most governments outside the IBSA orbit.</span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
You think so. Are you ready for a vote in the General assembly? :) . I
see you chickening out of your statement already. Or perhaps when you
think governments you think just the powerful northern ones, <br>
<br>
parminder<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:75822E125BCB994F8446858C4B19F0D71754937255@SUEX07-MBX-04.ad.syr.edu" type="cite">
<div class="WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Courier New"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Courier New"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Courier New"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Courier New"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Milton
L. Mueller<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Courier New"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Professor,
Syracuse University School of Information Studies<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Courier New"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Internet
Governance Project<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Courier New"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://blog.internetgovernance.org/"><span style="color: blue;">http://blog.internetgovernance.org</span></a> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Courier New"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Courier New"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Courier New"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div style="border-style: none none none solid; border-color: -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color blue; border-width: medium medium medium 1.5pt; padding: 0in 0in 0in 4pt;"><p class="MsoNormal">On Saturday 17 September 2011 01:40 AM, Marilia
Maciel wrote: <o:p></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal">Hello everybody,<br>
<br>
I would like to share with you some news about the IBSA seminar on
global Internet governance that took place in FGV-Rio de Janeiro in the
beginning of this month. Tight schedule and deadlines have prevented me
to report the discussions with the depth and length I would like to,
but I have written a blog post about it to the site of the Brazilian
Observatory of Digital policies, which has been circulating on Twitter
recently:<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://observatoriodainternet.br/discussions-and-recommendations-from-the-ibsa-seminar-on-internet-governance">http://observatoriodainternet.br/discussions-and-recommendations-from-the-ibsa-seminar-on-internet-governance</a><br>
<br>
I will be happy to talk more about it and share impressions here (if
time allows) or in Nairobi.<br>
<br>
Best wishes,<br>
Marília<br>
<br clear="all">
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
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<span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div>Raul </div><div>Twitter @raulecheberria</div></div></span></span>
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