<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Jul 17, 2011 at 11:08 PM, Roland Perry <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:roland@internetpolicyagency.com">roland@internetpolicyagency.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
In message <<a href="mailto:CAJwbTiDaiUhk-h97Yr3n8zcF6_TSH0kSDXJ-gn3H3aJXhu5RRA@mail.gmail.com" target="_blank">CAJwbTiDaiUhk-h97Yr3n8zcF6_<u></u>TSH0kSDXJ-gn3H3aJXhu5RRA@mail.<u></u>gmail.com</a>>, at 22:18:25 on Sun, 17 Jul 2011, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro <<a href="mailto:salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro@gmail.com" target="_blank">salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro@<u></u>gmail.com</a>> writes<div class="im">
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<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
I would like to link the reason why I asked the questions back to the<br>
general thread: if the internet is "public" why is it that some get<br>
marginalised.<br>
</blockquote>
<br></div>
Airlines are "public" transport (in the sense that anyone can use them. They are even publicly owned in some cases (less so in modern times I agree). None of this makes it the same price to fly inside Africa (which I understand is also an issue) as to fly inside Europe or the USA.<div class="im">
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<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
I do not know much about Kenya except for the little I have read but I<br>
will say this, it is easy for you to say that people should stop<br>
whinging about high international internet costs.<br>
</blockquote>
<br></div>
People are entitles to complain, but I am also entitled to point out that there are good reasons for the difference in costs. It's not a conspiracy by the developed world, and indeed much of the developed world had the same costs as recently as a decade ago. Rather than sit waiting for someone to give you a free lunch, why not try to solve the problem by investing in connectivity, just like everyone else had to?<div class="im">
<br></div></blockquote><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#ff0000">Who says we are sitting for someone to give us a free lunch? Believe it or not, we are trying to solve the problems and part of these is to deal with a discussion on the challenges.</font></div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"><div class="im">
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<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
I don't think the paper agreed with you, it actually disagreed with<br>
your position.<br>
</blockquote>
<br></div>
It agreed with me that it's users (not ISPs) who pay. That's half the original proposition shot down in flames. Yes, we disagree from there onwards!<div class="im"><br>
<font class="Apple-style-span" color="#ff0000">The ISPs are forced to carry the cost from whoever is providing backhaul and this is passed to the end user. "Shot down in flames" is an exaggeration that in this instance detracts from the issue of equity in costs bearing.</font></div>
</blockquote><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"><div class="im"><br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
In principle, the point is that an ordinary user in a<br>
developing world (Kenya) had to be forced and probably is still being<br>
forced to carry someone else's cost. Where is the fairness/equity?<br>
</blockquote>
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They aren't being forced to pay *anyone* else's cost. The cost is the cost of connecting to the Internet. It's not my fault they currently live somewhere far from the Interconnections which *define* "The Internet", and that Americans live nearer.<br>
</blockquote><div><br></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#ff0000">Who said it was your fault?</font> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
<br>
You might as well say it's someone's fault that a Kenyan has to pay a fortune in travelling expense to visit Disneyland, but a Florida resident doesn't. Answer: build your own Disneyland closer to home, rather than forcing an airline to cross the Atlantic for nothing.<div class="im">
<br><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#ff0000">Why would they need a Disneyland when they have georgous terrain and wildlife and canopy that you cannot artificially construct? Who would I need Disneyland when I can travel 20 km from where I am and swim with the dolphins. It is the height of arrogance to assume that we want to visit Disneyland.<br>
</font>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Back to the internet as a "public" good - if it is how then can the<br>
governance forum address these issues. To you it may be a half a<br>
circuit fallacy but to the people in the developing world this is a<br>
harsh reality.<br>
</blockquote>
<br></div>
If you want to fix the problem (and there *is* a problem), then *please* express it using the correct parameters. You'll never make progress trying to cure the *wrong* disease, any more than you'll cure a brain tumour by taking aspirin for the headache (or passing a law that says everyone must have cheap aspirin available). </blockquote>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
<br>
Roland.<br>
<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div class="im">
On Sun, Jul 17, 2011 at 9:54 PM, Roland Perry <<a href="mailto:roland@internetpolicyagency.com" target="_blank">roland@internetpolicyagency.<u></u>com</a>> wrote:<br></div>
In message <CAJwbTiA0kuDBGgJ81jrAYeUTkjBF <a href="mailto:SLZaWB2zVeWQJezxjK7AOA@mail.gmail.com" target="_blank">SLZaWB2zVeWQJezxjK7AOA@mail.<u></u>gmail.com</a>>, at 21:05:58 on Sun, 17 Jul<div><div></div><div class="h5">
<br>
2011, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro <salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro@ <a href="http://gmail.com" target="_blank">gmail.com</a>> writes<br>
<a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/1931120.stm" target="_blank">http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/<u></u>africa/1931120.stm</a><br>
Yes, I know. The half-circuit fallacy has got plenty of air-time.<br>
Perhaps we can move on, and try to fit round pegs in round holes,<br>
rather than complaining it costs too much money to push square pegs<br>
into round holes?<br>
--<br>
Roland Perry<br>
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--<br>
Sala<br>
<br>
"Stillness in the midst of the noise".<br>
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</div></div></blockquote><div><div></div><div class="h5">
<br>
-- <br>
Roland Perry<br>
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</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br><div>Sala</div><div> </div><div>"Stillness in the midst of the noise".</div><br>