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<DIV><SPAN class=639003307-26022011><FONT color=#0000ff size=2 face=Arial>I have
found myself even more out of the loop than Katiza or others for variety
of travel and other reasons.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=639003307-26022011><FONT color=#0000ff size=2
face=Arial></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=639003307-26022011><FONT color=#0000ff size=2 face=Arial>In an
earlier meeting I asked that someone on site volunteer/be designated to provide
some sort of running substantive commentary.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=639003307-26022011><FONT color=#0000ff size=2
face=Arial></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=639003307-26022011><FONT color=#0000ff size=2 face=Arial>In
reading through the emails on this meeing I have been finding that 90% are
process related. Certainly necessary for those on the ground but of little
interest or value to anyone else.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=639003307-26022011><FONT color=#0000ff size=2
face=Arial></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=639003307-26022011><FONT color=#0000ff size=2 face=Arial>What I
haven't found are any emails that summarize what the issues are that are being
addressed, who is addressing them and how, what the outcomes are and what is the
likely import of those decisions.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=639003307-26022011><FONT color=#0000ff size=2
face=Arial></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=639003307-26022011><FONT color=#0000ff size=2
face=Arial>Without that there is really no possibility of even following what is
going on let alone contributing at any point either now or in the
future.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=639003307-26022011><FONT color=#0000ff size=2
face=Arial></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=639003307-26022011><FONT color=#0000ff size=2
face=Arial>Tks,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=639003307-26022011><FONT color=#0000ff size=2
face=Arial></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=639003307-26022011><FONT color=#0000ff size=2
face=Arial>M</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px" dir=ltr>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr lang=en-us class=OutlookMessageHeader align=left><FONT size=2
face=Tahoma>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>
governance-request@lists.cpsr.org [mailto:governance-request@lists.cpsr.org]
<B>On Behalf Of </B>Katitza Rodriguez<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, February 24,
2011 8:27 PM<BR><B>To:</B> governance@lists.cpsr.org; Marilia
Maciel<BR><B>Cc:</B> Anriette Esterhuysen<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [governance]
on Observers at MAG meeting<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>Hola,
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>I agree that there is a need for civil society to organize ourselves in a
strategic way, to ensure that we can participate most effectively in this
process. In particular, it would be beneficial for civil society to have a
meeting - in private among civil society (which this list is not) - to discuss
our strategy, goals and proposals before the next MAG meeting. </DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>We should ensure that we have a virtual meeting just before the next
MAG to coordinate among us, and to make sure that we know what are our
common positions. This will enable MAG civil society members who are present
at the meeting to be most effective - both at presenting common positions, and
also at picking up and running with suggestions of the members at large that
are put forward during the meeting. </DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>While I appreciate the efforts that the Secretariat made to help those of
us trying to participate remotely today, it is clear to me that it is simply
not possible to rely completely on the live-time remote participation
facilities for ensuring effective civil society input for several reasons.<BR>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>First, there were ongoing technical glitches with the video stream today.
The video and audio tracks disappeared or were not working properly
during long periods of time today, and unfortunately at key moments of
the discussion. I spent time coordinating with tech support. There were a need
to scroll down the transcripts which was also uncomfortable. Second,
there was a significant time lag, or latency, between the actual
discussion on situ and when you were able to raise your hands and speak. This
made it impossible to add comments at the right time, in the flow of the
conversation, as the discussion on that topic was taking place. Several times,
I found myself giving my comment after the topic of discussion had changed.
Obviously it is hard for civil society to shape the discussion if we are
having to add our comments only *after* the discussion has moved on or be able
to make a second intervention as soon after other stakeholder put forward
their message. Third, decisions were taken today at times when the video
and sound and transcript were not working; (ie. when the right of observers to
speak was discussed) all of a sudden it would come back, and only then I would
discover that something had been decided and concluded. Taken together, these
problems made effective remote participation frustrating and difficult.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>But my sense is that there are strategies that we could use to better
address this next time, if we can have a private meeting to coordinate before
hand. </DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Finally, I want to apologize for not being able to attend the meeting in
person and explain why I was not able to do so. First and foremost, there was
no funding support for civil society to attend. I work for a member-supported
non profit organization. We do not have a travel budget. Second, the
confirmation that a MAG meeting would actually take place came so late that I
could not change my existing commitments and travel schedule. Like all of you,
I have multiple commitments and my schedule is set in advance. I arrived back
in San Francisco a few hours before the meeting started. I joined the meeting
at 3am my time, after close to 20 hours of travel the day before. With
more time and notice, I might have been able to scrounge up funds or flying
points to do so, but it was not possible in the time that we were given.
In short, we need to have more notice of these meetings if we are going
to ensure more civil society participation.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>I would therefore like to suggest that we ask the Secretariat to set the
dates for the next MAG meeting with sufficient time to allow those of us in
civil society to make affordable travel arrangements so that we can attend. We
know it is in May but no dates have been given so far. I would also like to
suggest that civil society should have a virtual meeting(s) to coordinate
among ourselves as soon as the next MAG meeting dates are announced.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>gracias,</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Katitza</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR>
<DIV>
<DIV>On Feb 24, 2011, at 2:08 PM, Marilia Maciel wrote:</DIV><BR
class=Apple-interchange-newline>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">I am not sure I understood your comment:
<DIV><SPAN
style="BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse; FONT-FAMILY: arial, sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: 13px"
class=Apple-style-span>Perhaps MAG meetings work better when there are not
so many observers?<BR></SPAN><BR></DIV>
<DIV>I have been to many open consultations but this is my first MAG meeting
and although I believe it is odd that people who are there with ideas
could not speak their minds, I wonder if allowing observers to speak would
not bring prejudice to multistakeholder equilibrium in the MAG. It would
give the ones that have more facility to be in geneva more voice and
more power. Of course, people who had the status of advisers are a different
story.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>But anyway the fact that observers could not speak on the mic today did
not mean they stayed quiet. There were Skype and Gtalk messages flying all
around and some ideas from observers came through and were spoken by MAG
members. This silent presence did have an impact.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>I would like to hear MAG members opinions on this question as well, but
my logic tells me that transparency and increased chance for accountability
puts pressure for MAG members to work better... Doesn't it?</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Marilia<BR><BR>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 6:44 PM, Anriette Esterhuysen
<SPAN dir=ltr><<A
href="mailto:anriette@apc.org">anriette@apc.org</A>></SPAN> wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex"
class=gmail_quote>Clarification below McTim:<BR>
<DIV class=im><BR>On 24/02/11 20:33, McTim wrote:<BR>>
Hi,<BR>><BR>> On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 7:00 PM, Anriette Esterhuysen
<<A href="mailto:anriette@apc.org">anriette@apc.org</A>>
wrote:<BR>>> I would hope that the MAG tries to distill the inputs
from the written<BR>>> submissions, and the open
consultation.<BR>>><BR>>> I am not quite sure that is what
happened today.<BR>>><BR>>> My other observations, as an
observer, are:<BR>>><BR>>> * The MAG should make use of small
group discussions who make proposals<BR>>> on content and themes,
with these groups then coming back into plenary<BR>>><BR>>> *
The technical community and the private sector is extremely
well<BR>>> prepared and organised, and, in attendance. Therefore
they are the most<BR>>> influential group by far in the
MAG.<BR>>><BR>>> * Civil society members of the MAG are doing
their best, but battling.<BR>>><BR>>> * Civil society is
prepared in that people have proposals, text and<BR>>> ideas, but is
not well organised on site and not prepared for effective<BR>>>
participation in the meeting.<BR>>><BR>>> * Government
participation is very limited... with good efforts from<BR>>>
Brazil, India and a handful of northern
governments.<BR>>><BR>>> * There are some MAG members who
don't participate at all. Why are they<BR>>>
there?<BR>>><BR>>> * It is not a very developing country or
civil society friendly space.<BR>>><BR>>> * I think the
private sector and the technical community should reflect<BR>>> on
their strategies<BR>><BR>><BR>> What is their
strategy(ies)?<BR><BR></DIV>Would be good if people from tech community
and business can respond<BR>themselves.<BR>
<DIV class=im>><BR>><BR>> ... they work in the short term, but
will they work<BR>>> in the long term? They feed into the
criticism of the IGF from certain<BR>>> governments which, whatever
our view of it may be, is not conducive to<BR>>> making this process
achieve its goals. Their withdrawal from the process<BR>>> makes it
less and less valuable for those of us who need to and want to<BR>>>
work with/challenge our governments to deal with basic internet
access,<BR>>> regulation, openness etc.
issues.<BR>><BR>><BR>> How are they withdrawing if they
"extremely well<BR>> prepared and organised, and, in attendance.
Therefore they are the<BR>> most influential group by far in the
MAG."<BR>><BR></DIV>Two different 'theys'.<BR><BR>It is governments
that are withdrawing, or have withdrawn. Some have<BR>never really
participated. I was not referring to the business and
tech<BR>community.<BR><BR>Personally I am really critical of governments
who don't participate.<BR>Kenya was the only African government that, as
the host, made an effort<BR>to comment on the IGF programme.<BR><BR>I
believe they should work inside the IGF space.<BR><BR>But their lack of
participation also weakens the IGF and the IGF's<BR>legitimacy and
impact.<BR><BR>My point was, that, sitting in a MAG meeting, I really
empathise with<BR>developing country governments... it is not easy to make
an impact, or<BR>get your points across. If English is not your first
language, and you<BR>don't have very well though out positions it is even
harder.<BR><BR>Perhaps MAG meetings work better when there are not so many
observers?<BR>What do MAG members think?<BR><BR>Anriette<BR><BR><BR>>
??<BR>
<DIV
class=im>><BR><BR>--<BR>------------------------------------------------------<BR>anriette
esterhuysen <A
href="mailto:anriette@apc.org">anriette@apc.org</A><BR>executive
director<BR>association for progressive communications<BR><A
href="http://www.apc.org"
target=_blank>www.apc.org</A><BR>____________________________________________________________<BR></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
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Rio<BR><BR>Center for Technology and Society<BR>Getulio Vargas
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