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<p class=MsoNormal>> This seems to be a good time to deal with this issue,
as there is no pending vote to cause pressure. Concrete alternatives should be
proposed to find a consensus solution. Don, do you have any suggestions for a
format you would find acceptable?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>Ginger my experience with this sort of general (lazy) consensus
within organisations is limited to my work with FOSS where consensus is deemed
by feedback (or lack thereof) to contributor and other change requests/suggestions.
Other orgs have more formal processes in place. Taking the process to
discussions here, it is self-evident that a number of respondents express concern
over recent changes meaning (in the context of lazy consensus), that all changes
should be reversed while impact, issues and other alternatives are assessed. Whether
this happens on this list or another established for the purpose is again a
matter for feedback of the list. Certainly a time-frame for discussions should
be proposed (I would suggest 1 week is normally adequate) – The ‘formal’
process at the end of this time would be to call for a simple online vote. This
is a very simple process that (I believe) evolved from development of the highly
successful Apache project.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>The alternative to this approach is to formalise these
membership issues; probably by constitution – I am not proposing this.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>Unfortunately Ian’s post missed the most critical
point under discussion being the recent change (as newly entered on the web
site) to membership status – a number of respondents have now queried
this – I propose this is not the sort of change that should be applied
without first seeking consensus.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>PS – I rather suspect that had due process been
followed we all could have saved a lot of wasted time on these discussions!<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>Don<span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'>
Ginger Paque [mailto:gpaque@gmail.com] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, 10 January 2011 9:04 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> governance@lists.cpsr.org; Ian Peter<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Don Cameron<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [governance] Phase 2 of improvements to the IGC Web site<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>I agree with Ian:<br>
<br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>"Most of
us past co ordinators at least would see a membership database as a positive
step forward and an easing of administrative work. Jeremy is not alone here and
the debate is probably more about the form of a database rather than the need
for one.</span>"<br>
<br>
This seems to be a good time to deal with this issue, as there is no pending
vote to cause pressure. Concrete alternatives should be proposed to find a
consensus solution. Don, do you have any suggestions for a format you would
find acceptable?<br>
<br>
Best, Ginger<br>
<br>
On 1/9/2011 5:12 PM, Ian Peter wrote: <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Hi Don, you wrote<br>
<br>
></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>There
would appear to be a loan (sic) voice on this forum promoting both a need for a
membership database as well as a need for the Charter to be changed.<br>
<br>
Most of us past co ordinators at least would see a membership database as a
positive step forward and an easing of administrative work. Jeremy is not alone
here and the debate is probably more about the form of a database rather than
the need for one.<br>
<br>
As well, many if not most of the lists subscribers would by now realise that
there is a need for the Charter to be revised in several respects. But
that’s an undertaking that is going to need a group to take action. (I am
not volunteering!)<br>
<br>
So I dont think Jeremy is acting alone. The silence of the majority of people
on this list with the current discussions might have more to do with having
discussed these issues before, or perhaps being disinterested in matters of
administrative process and more interested in internet governance issues. I
don’t think you can take relative silence to mean that everyone agrees
with the points you make.<br>
<br>
Ian Peter<br>
<br>
</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>
<hr size=3 width="95%" align=center>
</span></div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>From: </span></b><span style='font-size:
11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Don Cameron <<a
href="dg_cameron@bigpond.com">dg_cameron@bigpond.com</a>><br>
<b>Reply-To: </b><<a href="governance@lists.cpsr.org">governance@lists.cpsr.org</a>>,
Don Cameron <<a href="dg_cameron@bigpond.com">dg_cameron@bigpond.com</a>><br>
<b>Date: </b>Mon, 10 Jan 2011 06:35:22 +1100<br>
<b>To: </b><<a href="governance@lists.cpsr.org">governance@lists.cpsr.org</a>>,
David Goldstein <<a href="goldstein_david@yahoo.com.au">goldstein_david@yahoo.com.au</a>><br>
<b>Subject: </b>RE: [governance] Phase 2 of improvements to the IGC Web site<br>
<br>
</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>>
Additionally, if "the current membership list is on the basis of those who
voted in the last election," what happens to those who did not vote for
whatever reason?<br>
<br>
David this point is exactly my concern and the reason I entered this
conversation – We cannot claim professionalism unless we follow open and
proper process.<br>
<br>
In several unfortunate personalisation’s I and others have loosely been
described as ‘lurkers’; ‘internet old timers’, and now
in defining the right to abstain from voting, as someone who
‘doesn’t want to vote’ – yet none of these negative
descriptors address the very real issue of one persons interpretation of an
organisational Charter being used to discriminate against membership.
That’s what this discussion is all about.<br>
<br>
Power building – yes. Democratic – no. <br>
<br>
There would appear to be a loan voice on this forum promoting both a need for a
membership database as well as a need for the Charter to be changed. A majority
would appear to be against such change; yet change is happening regardless.<br>
<br>
The right of members for lazy consensus before the implementation of any change
is discarded for the sake of one person’s interpretation of systems
expediency.<br>
<br>
Is this a right and proper process?<br>
<br>
Don <br>
<br>
</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><br>
</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><br>
</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><br>
</span><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> <a
href="governance-request@lists.cpsr.org">governance-request@lists.cpsr.org</a> [<a
href="mailto:governance-request@lists.cpsr.org">mailto:governance-request@lists.cpsr.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>David Goldstein<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, 9 January 2011 11:52 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="governance@lists.cpsr.org">governance@lists.cpsr.org</a>;
Jeremy Malcolm; Don Cameron<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [governance] Phase 2 of improvements to the IGC Web site<br>
</span><br>
<span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><br>
</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>This
process is absurd Jeremy and makes a mockery any sort of a democracy.<br>
<br>
It seems like empire building for the sake of empire building. Ten year old
kids couldn't make more of a mess of this in organising a school play club.
Actually, they'd do a much better job.<br>
<br>
Additionally, if "the current membership list is on the basis of those who
voted in the last election," what happens to those who did not vote for
whatever reason?<br>
<br>
David<br>
<br>
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
<hr size=1 width="100%" align=center>
</span></div>
<p style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Jeremy Malcolm <<a
href="jeremy@ciroap.org">jeremy@ciroap.org</a>><br>
<b>To:</b> Don Cameron <<a href="dg_cameron@bigpond.com">dg_cameron@bigpond.com</a>>;
<a href="governance@lists.cpsr.org">governance@lists.cpsr.org</a><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sun, 9 January, 2011 10:39:56 PM<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [governance] Phase 2 of improvements to the IGC Web site<br>
</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><br>
</span>On 09/01/2011, at 7:09 PM, Don Cameron wrote:<br>
<br>
<br>
<span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>The charter
further defines self modification (moves to change the charter) as follows:
“In amending the charter, everyone who voted in the previous election
will be deemed a member for amending the charter”.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
This certainly impacts on the right to vote for charter modifications, however
it otherwise has no impact on membership.<br>
</span><br>
<span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><br>
</span>Well, so some say, but others (including myself) interpret it otherwise.
The current membership list is on the basis of those who voted in the
last election. If we want to clarify this, we need to amend the charter.<br>
<span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><br>
</span><br>
<span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><br>
</span>In other news, I have properly fixed the LDAP errors that were
preventing people from editing their profiles to add extra optional profile
information (such as addresses and phone numbers), after they had registered.
Sorry about that.<br>
<span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><br>
</span><br>
<span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><br>
</span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"'>-- <br>
</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><br>
</span><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"'>Jeremy
Malcolm<br>
Project Coordinator<br>
</span></b><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"'>Consumers
International<br>
</span><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";
color:gray'>Kuala Lumpur Office for Asia Pacific and the Middle East<br>
Lot 5-1 Wisma WIM, 7 Jalan Abang Haji Openg, TTDI, 60000 Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia<br>
Tel: +60 3 7726 1599<br>
</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><br>
</span><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";
color:#C00000'>Empowering Tomorrow’s Consumers</span></b><b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> <br>
</span></b><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";
color:#C00000'>CI World Congress, 3-6 May 2011, Hong Kong<br>
</span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><br>
</span><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Businesses, governments and civil society are invited to join
consumer groups from around the world<br>
</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><br>
</span><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";
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style='font-size:13.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'> <<a
href="http://www.consumersinternational.org/congress">http://www.consumersinternational.org/congress</a>>
<br>
</span></u><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><br>
</span><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";
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<span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Consolas'>____________________________________________________________<br>
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<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>-- <br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p style='margin-bottom:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><b><span style='font-family:
"Arial","sans-serif"'><br>
</span></b><b><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#333333'>Ginger
(Virginia) Paque<br>
</span></b><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#333333'>IGCBP
Online Coordinator<br>
DiploFoundation</span><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><br>
<a href="http://www.diplomacy.edu/ig">www.diplomacy.edu/ig</a> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style='margin-bottom:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><b><span style='font-family:
"Arial","sans-serif"'>The latest from Diplo...</span></b><span
style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><br>
<a href="http://igbook.diplomacy.edu/">http://igbook.diplomacy.edu </a>is the
online companion to <i>An Introduction to Internet Governance, </i>Diplo's
publication on IG. Download the book, read the blogs and post your
comments. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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