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    I agree with Ian:<br>
    <br>
    <font size="2"><font face="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><span
          style="font-size: 10pt;">"Most of us past co ordinators at
          least would see a membership database as a positive step
          forward and an easing of administrative work. Jeremy is not
          alone here and the debate is probably more about the form of a
          database rather than the need for one.</span></font></font>"<br>
    <br>
    This seems to be a good time to deal with this issue, as there is no
    pending vote to cause pressure. Concrete alternatives should be
    proposed to find a consensus solution. Don, do you have any
    suggestions for a format you would find acceptable?<br>
    <br>
    Best, Ginger<br>
    <br>
    On 1/9/2011 5:12 PM, Ian Peter wrote:
    <blockquote cite="mid:C950770C.152B5%25ian.peter@ianpeter.com"
      type="cite">
      <title>Re: [governance] Phase 2 of improvements to the IGC Web
        site</title>
      <font face="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><span
          style="font-size: 11pt;">Hi Don, you wrote<br>
          <br>
          ></span></font><font size="2"><font face="Verdana,
          Helvetica, Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">There would
            appear to be a loan (sic) voice on this forum promoting both
            a need for a membership database as well as a need for the
            Charter to be changed.<br>
            <br>
            Most of us past co ordinators at least would see a
            membership database as a positive step forward and an easing
            of administrative work. Jeremy is not alone here and the
            debate is probably more about the form of a database rather
            than the need for one.<br>
            <br>
            As well, many if not most of the lists subscribers would by
            now realise that there is a need for the Charter to be
            revised  in several respects. But that’s an undertaking that
            is going to need a group to take action. (I am not
            volunteering!)<br>
            <br>
            So I dont think Jeremy is acting alone. The silence of the
            majority of people on this list with the current discussions
            might have more to do with having discussed these issues
            before, or perhaps being disinterested in matters of
            administrative process and more interested in internet
            governance issues. I don’t think you can take relative
            silence to mean that everyone agrees with the points you
            make.<br>
            <br>
            Ian Peter<br>
          </span></font></font><font face="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica,
        Arial"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"><br>
          <br>
          <hr size="3" align="CENTER" width="95%"><b>From: </b>Don
          Cameron <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
            href="dg_cameron@bigpond.com">dg_cameron@bigpond.com</a>><br>
          <b>Reply-To: </b><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
            href="governance@lists.cpsr.org">governance@lists.cpsr.org</a>>,
          Don Cameron <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
            href="dg_cameron@bigpond.com">dg_cameron@bigpond.com</a>><br>
          <b>Date: </b>Mon, 10 Jan 2011 06:35:22 +1100<br>
          <b>To: </b><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
            href="governance@lists.cpsr.org">governance@lists.cpsr.org</a>>,
          David Goldstein <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
            href="goldstein_david@yahoo.com.au">goldstein_david@yahoo.com.au</a>><br>
          <b>Subject: </b>RE: [governance] Phase 2 of improvements to
          the IGC Web site<br>
          <br>
        </span></font><font size="2"><font face="Verdana, Helvetica,
          Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">> Additionally, if
            "the current membership list is on the basis of those who
            voted in the last election," what happens to those who did
            not vote for whatever reason?<br>
             <br>
            David this point is exactly my concern and the reason I
            entered this conversation – We cannot claim professionalism
            unless we follow open and proper process.<br>
             <br>
            In several unfortunate personalisation’s I and others have
            loosely been described as ‘lurkers’; ‘internet old timers’,
            and now in defining the right to abstain from voting, as
            someone who ‘doesn’t want to vote’ – yet none of these
            negative descriptors address the very real issue of one
            persons interpretation of an organisational Charter being
            used to discriminate against membership. That’s what this
            discussion is all about.<br>
             <br>
            Power building – yes. Democratic – no. <br>
             <br>
            There would appear to be a loan voice on this forum
            promoting both a need for a membership database as well as a
            need for the Charter to be changed. A majority would appear
            to be against such change; yet change is happening
            regardless.<br>
             <br>
            The right of members for lazy consensus before the
            implementation of any change is discarded for the sake of
            one person’s interpretation of systems expediency.<br>
             <br>
            Is this a right and proper process?<br>
             <br>
            Don      <br>
            <br>
          </span></font></font><font face="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica,
        Arial"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"><br>
          <font color="#1f497d"> <br>
          </font><br>
        </span></font><font size="2"><font face="Tahoma, Verdana,
          Helvetica, Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"><b>From:</b>
            <a moz-do-not-send="true"
              href="governance-request@lists.cpsr.org">governance-request@lists.cpsr.org</a>
            [<a moz-do-not-send="true"
              href="mailto:governance-request@lists.cpsr.org">mailto:governance-request@lists.cpsr.org</a>]
            <b>On Behalf Of </b>David Goldstein<br>
            <b>Sent:</b> Sunday, 9 January 2011 11:52 PM<br>
            <b>To:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
              href="governance@lists.cpsr.org">governance@lists.cpsr.org</a>;
            Jeremy Malcolm; Don Cameron<br>
            <b>Subject:</b> Re: [governance] Phase 2 of improvements to
            the IGC Web site<br>
          </span></font></font><font face="Times New Roman"><span
          style="font-size: 12pt;"> <br>
        </span></font><font face="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><span
          style="font-size: 11pt;"><br>
        </span></font><font size="2"><font face="Verdana, Helvetica,
          Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">This process is absurd
            Jeremy and makes a mockery any sort of a democracy.<br>
            <br>
            It seems like empire building for the sake of empire
            building. Ten year old kids couldn't make more of a mess of
            this in organising a school play club. Actually, they'd do a
            much better job.<br>
            <br>
            Additionally, if "the current membership list is on the
            basis of those who voted in the last election," what happens
            to those who did not vote for whatever reason?<br>
            <br>
            David<br>
          </span></font></font><font face="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica,
        Arial"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"><br>
        </span></font><font size="2"><font face="Verdana, Helvetica,
          Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> <br>
          </span></font></font><font face="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica,
        Arial"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">
        </span></font>
      <p align="CENTER">
        <font size="2"><font face="Tahoma, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><span
              style="font-size: 10pt;">
              <hr size="1" align="CENTER" width="100%"></span></font></font>
      </p>
      <p>
        <font size="2"><font face="Tahoma, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><span
              style="font-size: 10pt;"><b>From:</b> Jeremy Malcolm <<a
                moz-do-not-send="true" href="jeremy@ciroap.org">jeremy@ciroap.org</a>><br>
              <b>To:</b> Don Cameron <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                href="dg_cameron@bigpond.com">dg_cameron@bigpond.com</a>>;
              <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="governance@lists.cpsr.org">governance@lists.cpsr.org</a><br>
              <b>Sent:</b> Sun, 9 January, 2011 10:39:56 PM<br>
              <b>Subject:</b> Re: [governance] Phase 2 of improvements
              to the IGC Web site<br>
            </span></font></font><font face="Calibri, Verdana,
          Helvetica, Arial"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"><br>
          </span></font><font face="Times New Roman"><span
            style="font-size: 12pt;">On 09/01/2011, at 7:09 PM, Don
            Cameron wrote:<br>
            <br>
            <br>
          </span></font><font face="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><span
            style="font-size: 11pt;">The charter further defines self
            modification (moves to change the charter) as follows: “In
            amending the charter, everyone who voted in the previous
            election will be deemed a member for amending the charter”.<br>
            <br>
             <br>
            <br>
            This certainly impacts on the right to vote for charter
            modifications, however it otherwise has no impact on
            membership.<br>
          </span></font><font face="Times New Roman"><span
            style="font-size: 12pt;"> <br>
          </span></font><font face="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><span
            style="font-size: 11pt;"><br>
          </span></font><font face="Times New Roman"><span
            style="font-size: 12pt;">Well, so some say, but others
            (including myself) interpret it otherwise.  The current
            membership list is on the basis of those who voted in the
            last election.  If we want to clarify this, we need to amend
            the charter.<br>
          </span></font><font face="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><span
            style="font-size: 11pt;"><br>
          </span></font><font face="Times New Roman"><span
            style="font-size: 12pt;"> <br>
          </span></font><font face="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><span
            style="font-size: 11pt;"><br>
          </span></font><font face="Times New Roman"><span
            style="font-size: 12pt;">In other news, I have properly
            fixed the LDAP errors that were preventing people from
            editing their profiles to add extra optional profile
            information (such as addresses and phone numbers), after
            they had registered.  Sorry about that.<br>
          </span></font><font face="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><span
            style="font-size: 11pt;"><br>
          </span></font><font face="Times New Roman"><span
            style="font-size: 12pt;"> <br>
          </span></font><font face="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><span
            style="font-size: 11pt;"><br>
          </span></font><font size="1"><font face="Helvetica, Verdana,
            Arial"><span style="font-size: 9pt;">-- <br>
            </span></font></font><font face="Calibri, Verdana,
          Helvetica, Arial"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"><br>
          </span></font><font size="2"><font face="Helvetica, Verdana,
            Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"><b>Jeremy Malcolm<br>
                Project Coordinator<br>
              </b></span></font></font><font face="Helvetica, Verdana,
          Arial"><font size="1"><span style="font-size: 8pt;">Consumers
              International<br>
              <font color="#808080">Kuala Lumpur Office for Asia Pacific
                and the Middle East<br>
                Lot 5-1 Wisma WIM, 7 Jalan Abang Haji Openg, TTDI, 60000
                Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia<br>
                Tel: +60 3 7726 1599<br>
              </font></span></font></font><font face="Calibri, Verdana,
          Helvetica, Arial"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"><br>
          </span></font><font color="#c00000"><font size="2"><font
              face="Helvetica, Verdana, Arial"><span style="font-size:
                10pt;"><b>Empowering Tomorrow’s Consumers</b></span></font></font></font><font
          size="2"><font face="Helvetica, Verdana, Arial"><span
              style="font-size: 10pt;"><b><font color="#1f497d"> <br>
                </font><font color="#c00000">CI World Congress, 3-6 May
                  2011, Hong Kong<br>
                </font></b></span></font></font><font face="Calibri,
          Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"><br>
          </span></font><font color="#1f497d"><font size="1"><font
              face="Helvetica, Verdana, Arial"><span style="font-size:
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                invited to join consumer groups from around the world<br>
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          </span></font><font color="#1f497d"><font size="1"><font
              face="Helvetica, Verdana, Arial"><span style="font-size:
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                issues that matter most to consumers. <b>Register now!<br>
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          </b></font><font color="#333333"><font face="Arial,
            sans-serif"><b>Ginger
              (Virginia) Paque<br>
            </b></font></font><font color="#333333"><font face="Arial,
            sans-serif"><span style="font-weight: normal;">IGCBP
              Online Coordinator<br>
              DiploFoundation</span></font></font><font face="Arial,
          sans-serif"><span style="font-weight: normal;"><br>
            <a href="http://www.diplomacy.edu/ig">www.diplomacy.edu/ig</a>
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