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I agree with Ian:<br>
<br>
<font size="2"><font face="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><span
style="font-size: 10pt;">"Most of us past co ordinators at
least would see a membership database as a positive step
forward and an easing of administrative work. Jeremy is not
alone here and the debate is probably more about the form of a
database rather than the need for one.</span></font></font>"<br>
<br>
This seems to be a good time to deal with this issue, as there is no
pending vote to cause pressure. Concrete alternatives should be
proposed to find a consensus solution. Don, do you have any
suggestions for a format you would find acceptable?<br>
<br>
Best, Ginger<br>
<br>
On 1/9/2011 5:12 PM, Ian Peter wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:C950770C.152B5%25ian.peter@ianpeter.com"
type="cite">
<title>Re: [governance] Phase 2 of improvements to the IGC Web
site</title>
<font face="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><span
style="font-size: 11pt;">Hi Don, you wrote<br>
<br>
></span></font><font size="2"><font face="Verdana,
Helvetica, Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">There would
appear to be a loan (sic) voice on this forum promoting both
a need for a membership database as well as a need for the
Charter to be changed.<br>
<br>
Most of us past co ordinators at least would see a
membership database as a positive step forward and an easing
of administrative work. Jeremy is not alone here and the
debate is probably more about the form of a database rather
than the need for one.<br>
<br>
As well, many if not most of the lists subscribers would by
now realise that there is a need for the Charter to be
revised in several respects. But that’s an undertaking that
is going to need a group to take action. (I am not
volunteering!)<br>
<br>
So I dont think Jeremy is acting alone. The silence of the
majority of people on this list with the current discussions
might have more to do with having discussed these issues
before, or perhaps being disinterested in matters of
administrative process and more interested in internet
governance issues. I don’t think you can take relative
silence to mean that everyone agrees with the points you
make.<br>
<br>
Ian Peter<br>
</span></font></font><font face="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica,
Arial"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"><br>
<br>
<hr size="3" align="CENTER" width="95%"><b>From: </b>Don
Cameron <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="dg_cameron@bigpond.com">dg_cameron@bigpond.com</a>><br>
<b>Reply-To: </b><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="governance@lists.cpsr.org">governance@lists.cpsr.org</a>>,
Don Cameron <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="dg_cameron@bigpond.com">dg_cameron@bigpond.com</a>><br>
<b>Date: </b>Mon, 10 Jan 2011 06:35:22 +1100<br>
<b>To: </b><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="governance@lists.cpsr.org">governance@lists.cpsr.org</a>>,
David Goldstein <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="goldstein_david@yahoo.com.au">goldstein_david@yahoo.com.au</a>><br>
<b>Subject: </b>RE: [governance] Phase 2 of improvements to
the IGC Web site<br>
<br>
</span></font><font size="2"><font face="Verdana, Helvetica,
Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">> Additionally, if
"the current membership list is on the basis of those who
voted in the last election," what happens to those who did
not vote for whatever reason?<br>
<br>
David this point is exactly my concern and the reason I
entered this conversation – We cannot claim professionalism
unless we follow open and proper process.<br>
<br>
In several unfortunate personalisation’s I and others have
loosely been described as ‘lurkers’; ‘internet old timers’,
and now in defining the right to abstain from voting, as
someone who ‘doesn’t want to vote’ – yet none of these
negative descriptors address the very real issue of one
persons interpretation of an organisational Charter being
used to discriminate against membership. That’s what this
discussion is all about.<br>
<br>
Power building – yes. Democratic – no. <br>
<br>
There would appear to be a loan voice on this forum
promoting both a need for a membership database as well as a
need for the Charter to be changed. A majority would appear
to be against such change; yet change is happening
regardless.<br>
<br>
The right of members for lazy consensus before the
implementation of any change is discarded for the sake of
one person’s interpretation of systems expediency.<br>
<br>
Is this a right and proper process?<br>
<br>
Don <br>
<br>
</span></font></font><font face="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica,
Arial"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"><br>
<font color="#1f497d"> <br>
</font><br>
</span></font><font size="2"><font face="Tahoma, Verdana,
Helvetica, Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"><b>From:</b>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="governance-request@lists.cpsr.org">governance-request@lists.cpsr.org</a>
[<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:governance-request@lists.cpsr.org">mailto:governance-request@lists.cpsr.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>David Goldstein<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, 9 January 2011 11:52 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="governance@lists.cpsr.org">governance@lists.cpsr.org</a>;
Jeremy Malcolm; Don Cameron<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [governance] Phase 2 of improvements to
the IGC Web site<br>
</span></font></font><font face="Times New Roman"><span
style="font-size: 12pt;"> <br>
</span></font><font face="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><span
style="font-size: 11pt;"><br>
</span></font><font size="2"><font face="Verdana, Helvetica,
Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">This process is absurd
Jeremy and makes a mockery any sort of a democracy.<br>
<br>
It seems like empire building for the sake of empire
building. Ten year old kids couldn't make more of a mess of
this in organising a school play club. Actually, they'd do a
much better job.<br>
<br>
Additionally, if "the current membership list is on the
basis of those who voted in the last election," what happens
to those who did not vote for whatever reason?<br>
<br>
David<br>
</span></font></font><font face="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica,
Arial"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"><br>
</span></font><font size="2"><font face="Verdana, Helvetica,
Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> <br>
</span></font></font><font face="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica,
Arial"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">
</span></font>
<p align="CENTER">
<font size="2"><font face="Tahoma, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><span
style="font-size: 10pt;">
<hr size="1" align="CENTER" width="100%"></span></font></font>
</p>
<p>
<font size="2"><font face="Tahoma, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><span
style="font-size: 10pt;"><b>From:</b> Jeremy Malcolm <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="jeremy@ciroap.org">jeremy@ciroap.org</a>><br>
<b>To:</b> Don Cameron <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="dg_cameron@bigpond.com">dg_cameron@bigpond.com</a>>;
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="governance@lists.cpsr.org">governance@lists.cpsr.org</a><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sun, 9 January, 2011 10:39:56 PM<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [governance] Phase 2 of improvements
to the IGC Web site<br>
</span></font></font><font face="Calibri, Verdana,
Helvetica, Arial"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"><br>
</span></font><font face="Times New Roman"><span
style="font-size: 12pt;">On 09/01/2011, at 7:09 PM, Don
Cameron wrote:<br>
<br>
<br>
</span></font><font face="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><span
style="font-size: 11pt;">The charter further defines self
modification (moves to change the charter) as follows: “In
amending the charter, everyone who voted in the previous
election will be deemed a member for amending the charter”.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
This certainly impacts on the right to vote for charter
modifications, however it otherwise has no impact on
membership.<br>
</span></font><font face="Times New Roman"><span
style="font-size: 12pt;"> <br>
</span></font><font face="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><span
style="font-size: 11pt;"><br>
</span></font><font face="Times New Roman"><span
style="font-size: 12pt;">Well, so some say, but others
(including myself) interpret it otherwise. The current
membership list is on the basis of those who voted in the
last election. If we want to clarify this, we need to amend
the charter.<br>
</span></font><font face="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><span
style="font-size: 11pt;"><br>
</span></font><font face="Times New Roman"><span
style="font-size: 12pt;"> <br>
</span></font><font face="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><span
style="font-size: 11pt;"><br>
</span></font><font face="Times New Roman"><span
style="font-size: 12pt;">In other news, I have properly
fixed the LDAP errors that were preventing people from
editing their profiles to add extra optional profile
information (such as addresses and phone numbers), after
they had registered. Sorry about that.<br>
</span></font><font face="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><span
style="font-size: 11pt;"><br>
</span></font><font face="Times New Roman"><span
style="font-size: 12pt;"> <br>
</span></font><font face="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><span
style="font-size: 11pt;"><br>
</span></font><font size="1"><font face="Helvetica, Verdana,
Arial"><span style="font-size: 9pt;">-- <br>
</span></font></font><font face="Calibri, Verdana,
Helvetica, Arial"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"><br>
</span></font><font size="2"><font face="Helvetica, Verdana,
Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"><b>Jeremy Malcolm<br>
Project Coordinator<br>
</b></span></font></font><font face="Helvetica, Verdana,
Arial"><font size="1"><span style="font-size: 8pt;">Consumers
International<br>
<font color="#808080">Kuala Lumpur Office for Asia Pacific
and the Middle East<br>
Lot 5-1 Wisma WIM, 7 Jalan Abang Haji Openg, TTDI, 60000
Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia<br>
Tel: +60 3 7726 1599<br>
</font></span></font></font><font face="Calibri, Verdana,
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style="font-size: 10pt;"><b><font color="#1f497d"> <br>
</font><font color="#c00000">CI World Congress, 3-6 May
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</font></b></span></font></font><font face="Calibri,
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</span></font><font color="#1f497d"><font size="1"><font
face="Helvetica, Verdana, Arial"><span style="font-size:
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</span></font></font></font><font face="Calibri, Verdana,
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