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Hi Bill<br>
<br>
No. I am not interested in recommendations. We already have
international instruments and international human rights courts.
Any recommendation on this issue, at this point, will be to control
content rather than to open it. This is a FoE case. This is how, I
believe, is the right way and we should frame the discussion.
Katitza<br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:3EDF6E85-2E68-4BDD-B18D-B40A5AE80048@graduateinstitute.ch"
type="cite">Hi
<div><br>
<div>
<div>On Dec 12, 2010, at 6:49 PM, Katitza Rodriguez wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<blockquote type="cite">
<div bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000"> Hi William,<br>
<br>
We already have international instruments that protects
freedom of expression. It sets precedents of what it can
be disclosed. Why we need new rules? Can you explain me? <br>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
There's a draft IGC text saying that this case shows we need a
new framework of principles to guide global IG, which
presumably would affect such things, so I asked why how what
do people have in mind. You replied you were thinking of the
HRC. The HRC is a deliberative body, populated by China,
Saudi Arabia et al, that is supposed to make recommendations
to the General Assembly. So I assumed you meant the HRC
should make recommendations on new principles per the draft
IGC text. If instead you meant that the HRC could assess
this as a freedom of expression case in accordance with
existing international rights instruments and make
recommendations, ok, but the same question applies: Which of
the HRC's member governments could we expect to argue that
case and make recs we'd find congenial? One would like to
think that some would, but with <span class="Apple-style-span"
style="font-family: monospace; white-space: pre-wrap;">classified
national security information it could be a tough sell. </span>In
any event, a FOE majority seems unlikely, and even if one
could be assembled, it's questionable whether HRC recs (not
heretofore highly impactful AFAIK) would alter any behavior.
It'd certainly be an interesting debate though, and I'd be
happy to have it unfolding down the street from me. Prospects
might be better in an international court setting with
nominally independent judges and legal experts etc, rather
than an intergovernmental negotiation body...</div>
<div><br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000"> <br>
As Frank La Rue said: "<span data-jsid="text">"If there is
a responsibility by leaking information it is of,
exclusively of the person that made the leak, and not of
the media that publish it." Frank La Rue, UN Special
Rapporteur on Freedom of Expression <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.abc.net.au/worldtoday/content/2010/s3089025.htm"
rel="nofollow" target="_blank"><span>http://www.abc.net.au/worl</span><wbr><span
class="word_break"></span><span>dtoday/content/2010/s30890</span><wbr><span
class="word_break"></span>25.htm</a></span>"<br>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
Sure<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000"> <br>
<span data-jsid="text">Amnesty International: "On the
leaking of national defence information: While employees
of a government have the right to freedom of expression,
they also have duties as an employee, so a government
has more scope to impose restrictions on <span
class="text_exposed_hide">...</span><span
class="text_exposed_show">its employees than it would
have for private individuals who receive or republish
information. However, Amnesty International would be
concerned if a government were to seek to punish a
person who, for reasons of conscience, released in a
responsible manner information that they reasonably
believed to be evidence of human rights violations
that the government was attempting to keep secret in
order to prevent the public learning the truth about
the violations." <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.amnesty.org/en/news-and-updates/wikileaks-and-freedom-expression-2010-12-09"
rel="nofollow" target="_blank"><span>http://www.amnesty.org/en/</span><wbr><span
class="word_break"></span><span>news-and-updates/wikileaks</span><wbr><span
class="word_break"></span><span>-and-freedom-expression-20</span><wbr><span
class="word_break"></span>10-12-09</a></span></span><br>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
By these criteria, Bradley Manning's in trouble.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000">On Dec
12, 2010, at 6:46 PM, Michael Gurstein wrote:</font></div>
</blockquote>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div><br>
I think the argument here is that we (?) should get in
soon with some sort<br>
of suggested approach to a broad governance framework
because the "powers<br>
that be" will be feverishly working on their approach and
it will emerge<br>
very quickly and very forcefully.</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
</div>
<div>Neither half of this is very clear to me but I'm certainly
open to persuasion…</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Cheers,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Bill</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000"> <br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:91CF96AB-21E1-4CB8-9FBE-C3B70B8D8258@graduateinstitute.ch"
type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Hi Katitza,
On Dec 12, 2010, at 6:17 PM, Katitza Rodriguez wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">I am not familiar with United Nations structure but I was thinking within the Human Rights Council, to upheld International Human Rights Law on Freedom of Expression. Wikileaks is a Freedom of expression issue. But again: I am not familiar of how those Council's work. It would be good to know more about it.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www2.ohchr.org/english/bodies/hrcouncil/membership.htm">http://www2.ohchr.org/english/bodies/hrcouncil/membership.htm</a>
Which of those governments could we expect to adopt international rights-based principles protecting the nationally illegal disclosure of what they deem to be classified national security information? It's doubtful there'd be one, much less a majority, in this or any other international body.
Best,
Bill
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">On 12/12/10 9:10 AM, Drake William wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Hi Lee,
On Dec 12, 2010, at 5:13 PM, Lee W McKnight wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">I also appreciate many IGC members and member organizations wish to comment on the WikiLeaks case for their own reasons, but personally would be - depressed - if IGC couldn't manage to comment at all, itself.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">If so, then it would be helpful if you could specify the linkages to global Internet governance. Simply asserting that Wikileaks shows we need a global framework of principles will not by itself be terribly compelling to nonbelievers. What kinds of principles would address which aspects of the whole phenomenon? Where would they be established, who would adopt them, how would implementation and compliance be handled, etc…?
I've added other comments on the site; didn't know <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://digress.it">digress.it</a>, handy tool, thanks Jeremy.
Cheers,
Bill
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<pre wrap="">--
Katitza Rodriguez
International Rights Director
Electronic Frontier Foundation
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:katitza@eff.org">katitza@eff.org</a>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:katitza@datos-personales.org">katitza@datos-personales.org</a> (personal email)
Please support EFF - Working to protect your digital rights and freedom of speech since 1990
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<pre wrap="">***********************************************************
William J. Drake
Senior Associate
Centre for International Governance
Graduate Institute of International and
Development Studies
Geneva, Switzerland
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:william.drake@graduateinstitute.ch">william.drake@graduateinstitute.ch</a>
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***********************************************************
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<br>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Katitza Rodriguez
International Rights Director
Electronic Frontier Foundation
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:katitza@eff.org">katitza@eff.org</a>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:katitza@datos-personales.org">katitza@datos-personales.org</a> (personal email)
Please support EFF - Working to protect your digital rights and freedom of speech since 1990</pre>
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<div style="word-wrap: break-word;">***********************************************************<br>
William J. Drake<br>
Senior Associate<br>
Centre for International Governance<br>
Graduate Institute of International and<br>
Development Studies<br>
Geneva, Switzerland</div>
<div style="word-wrap: break-word;"><a
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<br>
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</blockquote>
<br>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Katitza Rodriguez
International Rights Director
Electronic Frontier Foundation
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:katitza@eff.org">katitza@eff.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:katitza@datos-personales.org">katitza@datos-personales.org</a> (personal email)
Please support EFF - Working to protect your digital rights and freedom of speech since 1990</pre>
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