<html><head><style type="text/css"><!-- DIV {margin:0px;} --></style></head><body><div style="font-family:bookman old style,new york,times,serif;font-size:10pt">Hi  <br>I enjoy coming to Europe so I like the idea of Geneva. Having said that, New York may also be consideration for the centrality it offers.   As an added perspective, I have been serving on another Commission at the UN for the past 10 years and despite having our conferences in the midst of blizzard season in February and March we have had attendance from all regions ranging from 5000-10000 people , One special year we even had 15000 if I'm not mistaken. In fact if anything the African pacific countries attendance is always strong example . So notwithstanding visa situation UN NY was and is still a popular venue.<br>Shaila Rao Mistry<br><div> </div><font face="comic sans ms"><strong></strong></font><div style="font-family: bookman old style,new york,times,serif;
 font-size: 10pt;"><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">From:</span></b> Ginger Paque <gpaque@gmail.com><br><div style="font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif; font-size: 12pt;"><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> governance@lists.cpsr.org; Milton L Mueller <mueller@syr.edu><br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Mon, September 6, 2010 2:38:05 PM<br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [governance] RE: WSIS Forum 2011<br></font><br>                   If our priority is inclusion and a wide range of participation (for     me it is), then I think the main argument is indeed ease and cost of     travel and visas. However, I think we should ask for WHOM it is     going to be easier. NY is easier for me, but I am not a priority for     inclusion. I would like to see a stakeholder and geographic     breakdown of the attendance list for the '2004
 WGIG-inspired meeting     in New York was more widely attended' that Milton mentions, as I     wonder if this attendance included a wide participation of Africa,     Caribbean, Pacific Asian and South American stakeholders, or if it     was logically centered on US and US-based participants. Is this data     available?<br>     <br>     Is it possible to do a poll or other sounding to find out which (NY     or Geneva) venue would result in a wider (theoretical) range of     inclusion, particularly for less represented regions?<br>     <br>     Best, gp<br>     <br>     <br>     <div class="moz-signature">       <br>       Ginger (Virginia) Paque<br>       IGCBP Online Coordinator<br>       DiploFoundation<br>       <a rel="nofollow" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" target="_blank" href="http://www.diplomacy.edu/ig">www.diplomacy.edu/ig</a><br>       <br>       <b>The latest from Diplo...</b>       <br><span>       <a target="_blank"
 href="http://DISCUSS.diplomacy.edu">http://DISCUSS.diplomacy.edu</a> is a space for discussing ideas and       concepts from </span>Diplo’s teaching and research activities. Our       activities focus on three main areas: Internet governance,       diplomacy, and global governance. In September, we DISCUSS: a)       network neutrality: hype and reality, b) the IGF experience: what       can policy makers learn from the IGF, and c) the history of the       Internet. Let us know if you have suggestions about ideas and       concepts that should be discussed.</div>     <br>     On 9/6/2010 4:42 PM, Milton L Mueller wrote:     <blockquote type="cite">                     <style> <!--    _filtered {font-family:"Cambria Math";panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}  _filtered {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}  _filtered {font-family:Tahoma;panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}   p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal 
        {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"serif";} a:link, span.MsoHyperlink    {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;} a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed    {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;} span.EmailStyle17     {font-family:"sans-serif";color:#1F497D;} .MsoChpDefault      {font-size:10.0pt;}  _filtered {margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;} div.WordSection1       {} --> </style>       <div class="WordSection1">         <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">I view the groundswell for Geneva on this list to             be a bit             self-serving. Of course your Geneva-based orgs want it to             stay there. I don’t             see why IGC should endorse that as a “pro civil society”             position. The             only argument of any merit is the visa difficulty issue –             if, as Tracy             calls into question, that difference still exists. </span></p>        
  <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">  </span></p>          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">I have my own self-interest, of course, but it             seems to me that             WSIS and IGF both are highly Euro-centric operations and it             would be good to             move it away from Europe for at least once. Whether its NY             or Vancouver or Hong             Kong or Panama matters less to me, although of course NYC is             most convenient to             me. </span></p>          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">  </span></p>          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Wolfgang’s argument that there are more CS             organizations             in Geneva seems false to me; there are probably more CS             organizations in the 300-mi  
           radius of NYC (which includes Montreal and probably also             Toronto) than anywhere             else in the world. </span></p>          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">  </span></p>          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">As a strict empirical test of the “reduced             participation”             claim, let me point out that the March 2004 WGIG-inspired             meeting in New York             was more widely attended than any subsequent WGIG             consultation. I think you can             count on a bang-up turnout, if nothing else, if you hold it             in NY. </span></p>          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">  </span></p>          <div style="border-style: none none none solid; border-color: blue; border-width: medium medium medium 1.5pt; padding: 0in 0in 0in
 4pt;">           <div>             <div style="border-style: solid none none; border-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); border-width: 1pt medium medium; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;">               <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> William                   Drake                   [<a rel="nofollow" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" ymailto="mailto:william.drake@graduateinstitute.ch" target="_blank" href="mailto:william.drake@graduateinstitute.ch">mailto:william.drake@graduateinstitute.ch</a>] <br>                   <b>Sent:</b> Monday, September 06, 2010 3:23 PM<br>                   <b>To:</b> Sivasubramanian M<br>                   <b>Cc:</b> Governance List<br>                   <b>Subject:</b> Re: [governance] RE: WSIS Forum 2011</span></p>              </div>           </div>           <p class="MsoNormal">  </p>            <p class="MsoNormal">Hi</p>            <div>             <p
 class="MsoNormal">  </p>            </div>           <div>             <p class="MsoNormal">Just read the ICC's statement, which               states in               part, "The WSIS action lines Forum events in Geneva have               drawn upon               the fact that many key organizations are located in               Geneva, and the               participation of many stakeholders, business included, has               been facilitated by               the fact that other WSIS related activities take place               around the same               dates. This has enabled participation by many because it               took into account the               limited time, financial and human resources of many across               stakeholder groups.               Organizing the WSIS action lines Forum 2011 in New York               risks               decreasing participation because it would require               extensive
 travel for               those participating in the other WSIS related activities               in May in Geneva.               Feedback from ICC BASIS members and other stakeholders               indicates that obtaining               visas for the US is extremely difficult for               many particularly from               developing countries. This would in turn decrease the               range of               participants. ICC BASIS supports having the WSIS action               lines Forum 2011               hosted in Geneva, or by the next lead facilitator, UNESCO               in Paris."</p>            </div>           <div>             <p class="MsoNormal">  </p>            </div>           <div>             <p class="MsoNormal"><span><a target="_blank"
 href="http://www.iccwbo.org/uploadedFiles/BASIS/Documents/ICC_BASIS_stmt_re_WSIS_Forum_2011_venue_FINAL_6Sept10.pdf">http://www.iccwbo.org/uploadedFiles/BASIS/Documents/ICC_BASIS_stmt_re_WSIS_Forum_2011_venue_FINAL_6Sept10.pdf</a></span></p>            </div>           <div>             <p class="MsoNormal">  </p>            </div>           <div>             <p class="MsoNormal">Is this a reasonable position from an               IGC               perspective…?</p>            </div>           <div>             <p class="MsoNormal">  </p>            </div>           <div>             <p class="MsoNormal">Best,</p>            </div>           <div>             <p class="MsoNormal">  </p>            </div>           <div>             <p class="MsoNormal">Bill</p>            </div>           <div>             <p class="MsoNormal">  </p>            </div>           <div>             <p class="MsoNormal">  </p>            </div>   
        <div>             <p class="MsoNormal">  </p>              <div>               <div>                 <p class="MsoNormal">On Sep 6, 2010, at 8:56 PM,                   Sivasubramanian M wrote:</p>                </div>               <p class="MsoNormal"><br>                 <br>                 </p>                <p class="MsoNormal">  </p>                <div>                 <p class="MsoNormal">2010/9/6 William Drake <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:william.drake@graduateinstitute.ch" target="_blank" href="mailto:william.drake@graduateinstitute.ch">william.drake@graduateinstitute.ch</a>></p>                  <p class="MsoNormal">Hi,<br>                   <br>                   We can toss around ideas about where an ideal venue                   that causes the least                   hassle for the most people might be, but the WSIS                   Forum will be held in either                   New York or Geneva.  
 Lee is probably right about                   mainstreaming; the                   question is, on what/whose terms?  Personally, I have                   never noticed that                   all that many CS people actually attend the WSIS                   Forums in the first place;                   they're certainly not much in evidence on the panels,                   which are largely                   selected by ITU on an "expert" rather than                   "stakeholder"                   basis.  But to the extent that IG/ICT-oriented CS                   people do wish to                   attend, one would think there's probably greater                   synergies and cost                   effectiveness for them in keeping it in Geneva during                   the same two week bloc as                   the IGF consultation (assuming those remain in Geneva)                   and the CSTD.  For                   CS people
 working in the other areas that are in the                   UN NY's bailiwick, e.g.                   disarmament et al, NY is obviously more convenient,                   but would they be all that                   interested enough in the typical WSIS Forum topics to                   attend?  Unclear.                    And I suppose one could widen the optic further and                   wonder whether this                   might fit in with larger discussions about the                   management of ICT-related                   activities connected to DESA…<br>                   <br>                   Should there be an IGC response to ITU's "Open                   Consultation" (means                   we can use their website, not enter the building), or                   would consensus being                   difficult to achieve?</p>                  <div>                   <p class="MsoNormal">  </p>                 
 </div>                 <div>                   <p class="MsoNormal">If CS does not assert its stakes                     in WSIS process, the WSIS                     panels could be engineered to lead to conclusions                     that the ITU desires, which                     would be a step back from the progress that the IGF                     has made. </p>                  </div>                 <div>                   <p class="MsoNormal">  </p>                  </div>                 <div>                   <p class="MsoNormal">There needs to be an IGC                     response. Also, IGC could reach out                     to fair and neutral international organizations to                      object to and alter                     the process.</p>                  </div>                 <div>                   <p class="MsoNormal">  </p>                  </div>                 <div>                   <p
 class="MsoNormal">Sivasubramanian M</p>                  </div>                 <div>                   <p class="MsoNormal">  </p>                  </div>                 <div>                   <p class="MsoNormal">  </p>                  </div>                 <blockquote style="border-style: none none none solid; border-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); border-width: medium medium medium 1pt; padding: 0in 0in 0in 6pt; margin-left: 4.8pt; margin-right: 0in;">                   <p class="MsoNormal"><br>                     Best,<br>                     <br>                     Bill</p>                    <div>                     <div>                       <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"><br>                         On Sep 6, 2010, at 6:35 PM, Lee W McKnight                         wrote:<br>                         <br>                         > Hi,<br>                         ><br>                         > Speaking as
 an academic for whom I admit                         New York City is convenient and                         would lowering my personal costs and logistics                         hassles, we can agree that UN                         venue decisions have impacts that may vary                         depending upon where one is coming                         from. Geneva is a fine (expensive) city, New                         York has its virtues too.<br>                         ><br>                         > A move to New York for wsis 2011 would to                         me signal a mainstreaming of IG                         issues wthin UN system; as would establishment                         of a permanent secretariat in                         yet a 3rd (developing?) location.<br>                         ><br>                         > But Wolfgang, the argument that it would be                         more difficult to get          
               media/public attention - in New York City -                          doesn't make much sense to                         me. In principle it should be easier. There's                         certainly plenty of media outlets                         hanging around already looking for things to                         talk and write about.<br>                         ><br>                         > Anyway, as I suggested before, while civil                         society has some success at                         substantive issues around IG, venue/location                         decisions I am afraid remain power                         politics/business as usual choices.<br>                         ><br>                         > Lee<br>                         > ________________________________________<br>                         > From: "Kleinwächter, Wolfgang" [<a rel="nofollow"
 ymailto="mailto:wolfgang.kleinwaechter@medienkomm.uni-halle.de" target="_blank" href="mailto:wolfgang.kleinwaechter@medienkomm.uni-halle.de">wolfgang.kleinwaechter@medienkomm.uni-halle.de</a>]<br>                         > Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 11:33 AM<br>                         > To: <a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:wsis-info@itu.int" target="_blank" href="mailto:wsis-info@itu.int">wsis-info@itu.int</a><br>                         > Cc: <a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:governance@lists.cpsr.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:governance@lists.cpsr.org">governance@lists.cpsr.org</a><br>                         > Subject: [governance] WSIS Forum 2011<br>                         ><br>                         > Dear friends<br>                         ><br>                         > I disagree with the argument that a move                         from Geneva to to New York of the                         WSIS Forum 2011
 would improve outreach and bring                         WSIS implementation forward.                         In contrary I am afraid that a move to NewYork                         will weaken in particular the                         involvement of civil society and the academic                         community as important stakeholders                         in the WSIS process. A large number of civil                         society organisations, including                         represenations of organisations from developing                         countries, are based in Geneva                         or not far from Geneva. Moving the event to New                         York would create additional                         costs and logistic problems for them which would                         result in lower participation                         of civil society organisations. This would                         certainly undermine the       
                  multistakeholder nature of the WSIS                         implementaiton process.<br>                         ><br>                         > Another risk moving the WSIS Forum 2011 to                         New York would be that the                         important WSIS issues would be discussed in the                         shadow of more important                         political and security issues which dominate the                         day to day UN acitvities in                         New York. The WSIS Forum would be just "another                         conference" and would                         have difficulties to get the needed public                         attention.<br>                         ><br>                         > Finally I want to flag that in same week                         the European Union has its annual                         Future of the Internet Week meetings under the     
                    Hungarian Presidency in                         Budapest.<br>                         ><br>                         ><br>                         > Regards<br>                         ><br>                         > Wolfgang Kleinwächter<br>                         >                         ____________________________________________________________<br>                         > You received this message as a subscriber                         on the list:<br>                         >     <a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:governance@lists.cpsr.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:governance@lists.cpsr.org">governance@lists.cpsr.org</a><br>                         > To be removed from the list, send any                         message to:<br>                         >     <a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:governance-unsubscribe@lists.cpsr.org" target="_blank"
 href="mailto:governance-unsubscribe@lists.cpsr.org">governance-unsubscribe@lists.cpsr.org</a><br>                         ><br>                         > For all list information and functions,                         see:<br><span>                         >     <a target="_blank" href="http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance">http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance</a></span><br>                         ><br><span>                         > Translate this email: <a target="_blank" href="http://translate.google.com/translate_t">http://translate.google.com/translate_t</a></span></p>                      </div>                   </div>                   <p class="MsoNormal">***********************************************************<br>                     William J. Drake<br>                     Senior Associate<br>                     Centre for International Governance<br>                     Graduate Institute of
 International and<br>                      Development Studies<br>                     Geneva, Switzerland<br>                     <span style="color: rgb(136, 136, 136);"><a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:william.drake@graduateinstitute.ch" target="_blank" href="mailto:william.drake@graduateinstitute.ch">william.drake@graduateinstitute.ch</a><br>                       <a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://www.graduateinstitute.ch/cig/drake.html">www.graduateinstitute.ch/cig/drake.html</a><br>                       <a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://www.linkedin.com/in/williamjdrake">www.linkedin.com/in/williamjdrake</a><br> ***********************************************************</span></p>                    <div>                     <div>                       <p class="MsoNormal">  </p>                      </div>                   </div>                 </blockquote>               </div>             </div>         
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