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If our priority is inclusion and a wide range of participation (for
me it is), then I think the main argument is indeed ease and cost of
travel and visas. However, I think we should ask for WHOM it is
going to be easier. NY is easier for me, but I am not a priority for
inclusion. I would like to see a stakeholder and geographic
breakdown of the attendance list for the '2004 WGIG-inspired meeting
in New York was more widely attended' that Milton mentions, as I
wonder if this attendance included a wide participation of Africa,
Caribbean, Pacific Asian and South American stakeholders, or if it
was logically centered on US and US-based participants. Is this data
available?<br>
<br>
Is it possible to do a poll or other sounding to find out which (NY
or Geneva) venue would result in a wider (theoretical) range of
inclusion, particularly for less represented regions?<br>
<br>
Best, gp<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-signature">
<br>
Ginger (Virginia) Paque<br>
IGCBP Online Coordinator<br>
DiploFoundation<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.diplomacy.edu/ig">www.diplomacy.edu/ig</a><br>
<br>
<b>The latest from Diplo...</b>
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<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://DISCUSS.diplomacy.edu">http://DISCUSS.diplomacy.edu</a> is a space for discussing ideas and
concepts from Diplo’s teaching and research activities. Our
activities focus on three main areas: Internet governance,
diplomacy, and global governance. In September, we DISCUSS: a)
network neutrality: hype and reality, b) the IGF experience: what
can policy makers learn from the IGF, and c) the history of the
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On 9/6/2010 4:42 PM, Milton L Mueller wrote:
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31,
73, 125);">I view the groundswell for Geneva on this list to
be a bit
self-serving. Of course your Geneva-based orgs want it to
stay there. I don’t
see why IGC should endorse that as a “pro civil society”
position. The
only argument of any merit is the visa difficulty issue –
if, as Tracy
calls into question, that difference still exists. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31,
73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31,
73, 125);">I have my own self-interest, of course, but it
seems to me that
WSIS and IGF both are highly Euro-centric operations and it
would be good to
move it away from Europe for at least once. Whether its NY
or Vancouver or Hong
Kong or Panama matters less to me, although of course NYC is
most convenient to
me. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31,
73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31,
73, 125);">Wolfgang’s argument that there are more CS
organizations
in Geneva seems false to me; there are probably more CS
organizations in the 300-mi
radius of NYC (which includes Montreal and probably also
Toronto) than anywhere
else in the world. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31,
73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31,
73, 125);">As a strict empirical test of the “reduced
participation”
claim, let me point out that the March 2004 WGIG-inspired
meeting in New York
was more widely attended than any subsequent WGIG
consultation. I think you can
count on a bang-up turnout, if nothing else, if you hold it
in NY. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31,
73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family:
"Tahoma","sans-serif";">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
"Tahoma","sans-serif";"> William
Drake
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:william.drake@graduateinstitute.ch">mailto:william.drake@graduateinstitute.ch</a>] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, September 06, 2010 3:23 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Sivasubramanian M<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Governance List<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [governance] RE: WSIS Forum 2011<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Hi<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Just read the ICC's statement, which
states in
part, "The WSIS action lines Forum events in Geneva have
drawn upon
the fact that many key organizations are located in
Geneva, and the
participation of many stakeholders, business included, has
been facilitated by
the fact that other WSIS related activities take place
around the same
dates. This has enabled participation by many because it
took into account the
limited time, financial and human resources of many across
stakeholder groups.
Organizing the WSIS action lines Forum 2011 in New York
risks
decreasing participation because it would require
extensive travel for
those participating in the other WSIS related activities
in May in Geneva.
Feedback from ICC BASIS members and other stakeholders
indicates that obtaining
visas for the US is extremely difficult for
many particularly from
developing countries. This would in turn decrease the
range of
participants. ICC BASIS supports having the WSIS action
lines Forum 2011
hosted in Geneva, or by the next lead facilitator, UNESCO
in Paris."<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.iccwbo.org/uploadedFiles/BASIS/Documents/ICC_BASIS_stmt_re_WSIS_Forum_2011_venue_FINAL_6Sept10.pdf">http://www.iccwbo.org/uploadedFiles/BASIS/Documents/ICC_BASIS_stmt_re_WSIS_Forum_2011_venue_FINAL_6Sept10.pdf</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Is this a reasonable position from an
IGC
perspective…?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Best,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Bill<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Sep 6, 2010, at 8:56 PM,
Sivasubramanian M wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">2010/9/6 William Drake <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:william.drake@graduateinstitute.ch">william.drake@graduateinstitute.ch</a>><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Hi,<br>
<br>
We can toss around ideas about where an ideal venue
that causes the least
hassle for the most people might be, but the WSIS
Forum will be held in either
New York or Geneva. Lee is probably right about
mainstreaming; the
question is, on what/whose terms? Personally, I have
never noticed that
all that many CS people actually attend the WSIS
Forums in the first place;
they're certainly not much in evidence on the panels,
which are largely
selected by ITU on an "expert" rather than
"stakeholder"
basis. But to the extent that IG/ICT-oriented CS
people do wish to
attend, one would think there's probably greater
synergies and cost
effectiveness for them in keeping it in Geneva during
the same two week bloc as
the IGF consultation (assuming those remain in Geneva)
and the CSTD. For
CS people working in the other areas that are in the
UN NY's bailiwick, e.g.
disarmament et al, NY is obviously more convenient,
but would they be all that
interested enough in the typical WSIS Forum topics to
attend? Unclear.
And I suppose one could widen the optic further and
wonder whether this
might fit in with larger discussions about the
management of ICT-related
activities connected to DESA…<br>
<br>
Should there be an IGC response to ITU's "Open
Consultation" (means
we can use their website, not enter the building), or
would consensus being
difficult to achieve?<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">If CS does not assert its stakes
in WSIS process, the WSIS
panels could be engineered to lead to conclusions
that the ITU desires, which
would be a step back from the progress that the IGF
has made. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">There needs to be an IGC
response. Also, IGC could reach out
to fair and neutral international organizations to
object to and alter
the process.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Sivasubramanian M<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
Best,<br>
<br>
Bill<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"><br>
On Sep 6, 2010, at 6:35 PM, Lee W McKnight
wrote:<br>
<br>
> Hi,<br>
><br>
> Speaking as an academic for whom I admit
New York City is convenient and
would lowering my personal costs and logistics
hassles, we can agree that UN
venue decisions have impacts that may vary
depending upon where one is coming
from. Geneva is a fine (expensive) city, New
York has its virtues too.<br>
><br>
> A move to New York for wsis 2011 would to
me signal a mainstreaming of IG
issues wthin UN system; as would establishment
of a permanent secretariat in
yet a 3rd (developing?) location.<br>
><br>
> But Wolfgang, the argument that it would be
more difficult to get
media/public attention - in New York City -
doesn't make much sense to
me. In principle it should be easier. There's
certainly plenty of media outlets
hanging around already looking for things to
talk and write about.<br>
><br>
> Anyway, as I suggested before, while civil
society has some success at
substantive issues around IG, venue/location
decisions I am afraid remain power
politics/business as usual choices.<br>
><br>
> Lee<br>
> ________________________________________<br>
> From: "Kleinwächter, Wolfgang" [<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:wolfgang.kleinwaechter@medienkomm.uni-halle.de">wolfgang.kleinwaechter@medienkomm.uni-halle.de</a>]<br>
> Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 11:33 AM<br>
> To: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:wsis-info@itu.int">wsis-info@itu.int</a><br>
> Cc: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:governance@lists.cpsr.org">governance@lists.cpsr.org</a><br>
> Subject: [governance] WSIS Forum 2011<br>
><br>
> Dear friends<br>
><br>
> I disagree with the argument that a move
from Geneva to to New York of the
WSIS Forum 2011 would improve outreach and bring
WSIS implementation forward.
In contrary I am afraid that a move to NewYork
will weaken in particular the
involvement of civil society and the academic
community as important stakeholders
in the WSIS process. A large number of civil
society organisations, including
represenations of organisations from developing
countries, are based in Geneva
or not far from Geneva. Moving the event to New
York would create additional
costs and logistic problems for them which would
result in lower participation
of civil society organisations. This would
certainly undermine the
multistakeholder nature of the WSIS
implementaiton process.<br>
><br>
> Another risk moving the WSIS Forum 2011 to
New York would be that the
important WSIS issues would be discussed in the
shadow of more important
political and security issues which dominate the
day to day UN acitvities in
New York. The WSIS Forum would be just "another
conference" and would
have difficulties to get the needed public
attention.<br>
><br>
> Finally I want to flag that in same week
the European Union has its annual
Future of the Internet Week meetings under the
Hungarian Presidency in
Budapest.<br>
><br>
><br>
> Regards<br>
><br>
> Wolfgang Kleinwächter<br>
>
____________________________________________________________<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal">***********************************************************<br>
William J. Drake<br>
Senior Associate<br>
Centre for International Governance<br>
Graduate Institute of International and<br>
Development Studies<br>
Geneva, Switzerland<br>
<span style="color: rgb(136, 136, 136);"><a
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