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    If our priority is inclusion and a wide range of participation (for
    me it is), then I think the main argument is indeed ease and cost of
    travel and visas. However, I think we should ask for WHOM it is
    going to be easier. NY is easier for me, but I am not a priority for
    inclusion. I would like to see a stakeholder and geographic
    breakdown of the attendance list for the '2004 WGIG-inspired meeting
    in New York was more widely attended' that Milton mentions, as I
    wonder if this attendance included a wide participation of Africa,
    Caribbean, Pacific Asian and South American stakeholders, or if it
    was logically centered on US and US-based participants. Is this data
    available?<br>
    <br>
    Is it possible to do a poll or other sounding to find out which (NY
    or Geneva) venue would result in a wider (theoretical) range of
    inclusion, particularly for less represented regions?<br>
    <br>
    Best, gp<br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-signature">
      <br>
      Ginger (Virginia) Paque<br>
      IGCBP Online Coordinator<br>
      DiploFoundation<br>
      <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.diplomacy.edu/ig">www.diplomacy.edu/ig</a><br>
      <br>
      <b>The latest from Diplo...</b>
      <br>
      <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://DISCUSS.diplomacy.edu">http://DISCUSS.diplomacy.edu</a> is a space for discussing ideas and
      concepts from Diplo’s teaching and research activities. Our
      activities focus on three main areas: Internet governance,
      diplomacy, and global governance. In September, we DISCUSS: a)
      network neutrality: hype and reality, b) the IGF experience: what
      can policy makers learn from the IGF, and c) the history of the
      Internet. Let us know if you have suggestions about ideas and
      concepts that should be discussed.</div>
    <br>
    On 9/6/2010 4:42 PM, Milton L Mueller wrote:
    <blockquote
cite="mid:75822E125BCB994F8446858C4B19F0D7073992239E@SUEX07-MBX-04.ad.syr.edu"
      type="cite">
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        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
            "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31,
            73, 125);">I view the groundswell for Geneva on this list to
            be a bit
            self-serving. Of course your Geneva-based orgs want it to
            stay there. I don’t
            see why IGC should endorse that as a “pro civil society”
            position. The
            only argument of any merit is the visa difficulty issue –
            if, as Tracy
            calls into question, that difference still exists. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
            "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31,
            73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
            "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31,
            73, 125);">I have my own self-interest, of course, but it
            seems to me that
            WSIS and IGF both are highly Euro-centric operations and it
            would be good to
            move it away from Europe for at least once. Whether its NY
            or Vancouver or Hong
            Kong or Panama matters less to me, although of course NYC is
            most convenient to
            me. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
            "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31,
            73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
            "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31,
            73, 125);">Wolfgang’s argument that there are more CS
            organizations
            in Geneva seems false to me; there are probably more CS
            organizations in the 300-mi
            radius of NYC (which includes Montreal and probably also
            Toronto) than anywhere
            else in the world. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
            "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31,
            73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
            "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31,
            73, 125);">As a strict empirical test of the “reduced
            participation”
            claim, let me point out that the March 2004 WGIG-inspired
            meeting in New York
            was more widely attended than any subsequent WGIG
            consultation. I think you can
            count on a bang-up turnout, if nothing else, if you hold it
            in NY. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
            "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31,
            73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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            <div style="border-right: medium none; border-width: 1pt
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              <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt;
                    font-family:
                    "Tahoma","sans-serif";">From:</span></b><span
                  style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
                  "Tahoma","sans-serif";"> William
                  Drake
                  [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:william.drake@graduateinstitute.ch">mailto:william.drake@graduateinstitute.ch</a>] <br>
                  <b>Sent:</b> Monday, September 06, 2010 3:23 PM<br>
                  <b>To:</b> Sivasubramanian M<br>
                  <b>Cc:</b> Governance List<br>
                  <b>Subject:</b> Re: [governance] RE: WSIS Forum 2011<o:p></o:p></span></p>
            </div>
          </div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal">Hi<o:p></o:p></p>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal">Just read the ICC's statement, which
              states in
              part, "The WSIS action lines Forum events in Geneva have
              drawn upon
              the fact that many key organizations are located in
              Geneva, and the
              participation of many stakeholders, business included, has
              been facilitated by
              the fact that other WSIS related activities take place
              around the same
              dates. This has enabled participation by many because it
              took into account the
              limited time, financial and human resources of many across
              stakeholder groups.
              Organizing the WSIS action lines Forum 2011 in New York
              risks
              decreasing participation because it would require
              extensive travel for
              those participating in the other WSIS related activities
              in May in Geneva.
              Feedback from ICC BASIS members and other stakeholders
              indicates that obtaining
              visas for the US is extremely difficult for
              many particularly from
              developing countries. This would in turn decrease the
              range of
              participants. ICC BASIS supports having the WSIS action
              lines Forum 2011
              hosted in Geneva, or by the next lead facilitator, UNESCO
              in Paris."<o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.iccwbo.org/uploadedFiles/BASIS/Documents/ICC_BASIS_stmt_re_WSIS_Forum_2011_venue_FINAL_6Sept10.pdf">http://www.iccwbo.org/uploadedFiles/BASIS/Documents/ICC_BASIS_stmt_re_WSIS_Forum_2011_venue_FINAL_6Sept10.pdf</a><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal">Is this a reasonable position from an
              IGC
              perspective…?<o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal">Best,<o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal">Bill<o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
            <div>
              <div>
                <p class="MsoNormal">On Sep 6, 2010, at 8:56 PM,
                  Sivasubramanian M wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
              </div>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><br>
                <br>
                <o:p></o:p></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
              <div>
                <p class="MsoNormal">2010/9/6 William Drake <<a
                    moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="mailto:william.drake@graduateinstitute.ch">william.drake@graduateinstitute.ch</a>><o:p></o:p></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal">Hi,<br>
                  <br>
                  We can toss around ideas about where an ideal venue
                  that causes the least
                  hassle for the most people might be, but the WSIS
                  Forum will be held in either
                  New York or Geneva.   Lee is probably right about
                  mainstreaming; the
                  question is, on what/whose terms?  Personally, I have
                  never noticed that
                  all that many CS people actually attend the WSIS
                  Forums in the first place;
                  they're certainly not much in evidence on the panels,
                  which are largely
                  selected by ITU on an "expert" rather than
                  "stakeholder"
                  basis.  But to the extent that IG/ICT-oriented CS
                  people do wish to
                  attend, one would think there's probably greater
                  synergies and cost
                  effectiveness for them in keeping it in Geneva during
                  the same two week bloc as
                  the IGF consultation (assuming those remain in Geneva)
                  and the CSTD.  For
                  CS people working in the other areas that are in the
                  UN NY's bailiwick, e.g.
                  disarmament et al, NY is obviously more convenient,
                  but would they be all that
                  interested enough in the typical WSIS Forum topics to
                  attend?  Unclear.
                   And I suppose one could widen the optic further and
                  wonder whether this
                  might fit in with larger discussions about the
                  management of ICT-related
                  activities connected to DESA…<br>
                  <br>
                  Should there be an IGC response to ITU's "Open
                  Consultation" (means
                  we can use their website, not enter the building), or
                  would consensus being
                  difficult to achieve?<o:p></o:p></p>
                <div>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
                </div>
                <div>
                  <p class="MsoNormal">If CS does not assert its stakes
                    in WSIS process, the WSIS
                    panels could be engineered to lead to conclusions
                    that the ITU desires, which
                    would be a step back from the progress that the IGF
                    has made. <o:p></o:p></p>
                </div>
                <div>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
                </div>
                <div>
                  <p class="MsoNormal">There needs to be an IGC
                    response. Also, IGC could reach out
                    to fair and neutral international organizations to
                     object to and alter
                    the process.<o:p></o:p></p>
                </div>
                <div>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
                </div>
                <div>
                  <p class="MsoNormal">Sivasubramanian M<o:p></o:p></p>
                </div>
                <div>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
                </div>
                <div>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
                </div>
                <blockquote style="border-width: medium medium medium
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                  -moz-use-text-color rgb(204, 204, 204); padding: 0in
                  0in 0in 6pt; margin-left: 4.8pt; margin-right: 0in;
                  z-index: auto;">
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><br>
                    Best,<br>
                    <br>
                    Bill<o:p></o:p></p>
                  <div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"><br>
                        On Sep 6, 2010, at 6:35 PM, Lee W McKnight
                        wrote:<br>
                        <br>
                        > Hi,<br>
                        ><br>
                        > Speaking as an academic for whom I admit
                        New York City is convenient and
                        would lowering my personal costs and logistics
                        hassles, we can agree that UN
                        venue decisions have impacts that may vary
                        depending upon where one is coming
                        from. Geneva is a fine (expensive) city, New
                        York has its virtues too.<br>
                        ><br>
                        > A move to New York for wsis 2011 would to
                        me signal a mainstreaming of IG
                        issues wthin UN system; as would establishment
                        of a permanent secretariat in
                        yet a 3rd (developing?) location.<br>
                        ><br>
                        > But Wolfgang, the argument that it would be
                        more difficult to get
                        media/public attention - in New York City -
                         doesn't make much sense to
                        me. In principle it should be easier. There's
                        certainly plenty of media outlets
                        hanging around already looking for things to
                        talk and write about.<br>
                        ><br>
                        > Anyway, as I suggested before, while civil
                        society has some success at
                        substantive issues around IG, venue/location
                        decisions I am afraid remain power
                        politics/business as usual choices.<br>
                        ><br>
                        > Lee<br>
                        > ________________________________________<br>
                        > From: "Kleinwächter, Wolfgang" [<a
                          moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="mailto:wolfgang.kleinwaechter@medienkomm.uni-halle.de">wolfgang.kleinwaechter@medienkomm.uni-halle.de</a>]<br>
                        > Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 11:33 AM<br>
                        > To: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="mailto:wsis-info@itu.int">wsis-info@itu.int</a><br>
                        > Cc: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="mailto:governance@lists.cpsr.org">governance@lists.cpsr.org</a><br>
                        > Subject: [governance] WSIS Forum 2011<br>
                        ><br>
                        > Dear friends<br>
                        ><br>
                        > I disagree with the argument that a move
                        from Geneva to to New York of the
                        WSIS Forum 2011 would improve outreach and bring
                        WSIS implementation forward.
                        In contrary I am afraid that a move to NewYork
                        will weaken in particular the
                        involvement of civil society and the academic
                        community as important stakeholders
                        in the WSIS process. A large number of civil
                        society organisations, including
                        represenations of organisations from developing
                        countries, are based in Geneva
                        or not far from Geneva. Moving the event to New
                        York would create additional
                        costs and logistic problems for them which would
                        result in lower participation
                        of civil society organisations. This would
                        certainly undermine the
                        multistakeholder nature of the WSIS
                        implementaiton process.<br>
                        ><br>
                        > Another risk moving the WSIS Forum 2011 to
                        New York would be that the
                        important WSIS issues would be discussed in the
                        shadow of more important
                        political and security issues which dominate the
                        day to day UN acitvities in
                        New York. The WSIS Forum would be just "another
                        conference" and would
                        have difficulties to get the needed public
                        attention.<br>
                        ><br>
                        > Finally I want to flag that in same week
                        the European Union has its annual
                        Future of the Internet Week meetings under the
                        Hungarian Presidency in
                        Budapest.<br>
                        ><br>
                        ><br>
                        > Regards<br>
                        ><br>
                        > Wolfgang Kleinwächter<br>
                        >
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                  <p class="MsoNormal">***********************************************************<br>
                    William J. Drake<br>
                    Senior Associate<br>
                    Centre for International Governance<br>
                    Graduate Institute of International and<br>
                     Development Studies<br>
                    Geneva, Switzerland<br>
                    <span style="color: rgb(136, 136, 136);"><a
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                        href="mailto:william.drake@graduateinstitute.ch">william.drake@graduateinstitute.ch</a><br>
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                        target="_blank">www.graduateinstitute.ch/cig/drake.html</a><br>
                      <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                        href="http://www.linkedin.com/in/williamjdrake"
                        target="_blank">www.linkedin.com/in/williamjdrake</a><br>
***********************************************************</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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                      <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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