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Carlton<br>
<br>
On Wednesday 11 August 2010 04:36 AM, SAMUELS,Carlton A wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid:39D05A5FD7C1334DA749CCFCE8538F87136B590A1A@xchg1.uwimona.edu.jm"
type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Ginger hit the nail squarely on its head; the crux of the NN issue for civil society is transparency. </pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
No, transparency is hardly enough. a quote from a quote in Ginger's
subsequent email "<b>That way, as Americans lose access
to the free and open Internet, they can visibly watch it go away."</b><br>
<br>
How does it matter if I know something is happening if I have no way of
influencing it?<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:39D05A5FD7C1334DA749CCFCE8538F87136B590A1A@xchg1.uwimona.edu.jm"
type="cite">
<pre wrap=""> The competitive free market will always devise methods, processes and activities intended to create advantage for one or other player. There will always be players willing to make investments to pump their wares; something for free that others are charging for is a tried and true method, ala "free" text messaging for x period.
Lowering the barrier to entry or participation is another. MS Windows took pole position in the OS space because there were apps driving its market penetration; a readily available SDK fueled the spread. Case in point: despite the hype and sleekness of the Iphone, it wouldn't have been such a hit without those apps. And the smart decision to freely distribute its SDK. Putting some 'skin in the game' by making a popular hi-traffic app available for free is not a stretch in marketing imagination.
</pre>
</blockquote>
Even in terms of commercial regulation, why does then EU fine Microsoft
Billions of dollars for bundling IE with its OS? And this when market
distortions vis a vis stand alone applications like OS and browsers is
not one tenth of what vertical integration and bundling would do in the
network or Internet space.<br>
<br>
However, if one doesnt believe in need to watch over possible excesses
of market power, one just doesnt. No amount of argument can do anything
about it. One can chose to be more bothered about the daily new
glamorous things one gets on one's i-phone and the Internet, or be more
bothered about the structural implications of vertical integrations in
the network space to the hopes set by the Internet for a more
egalitarian world.<br>
<br>
You seem to be happy that Apple bundles so much goodies with its
i-phone, McTim and Ginger are unhappy about the exclusive walls that
the apps ecology of i-phone and other Apple products are creating, and
therefroe refuse to use Apple products. Neither stances, in my view, is
enough from a civil society advocacy group perspective which needs to
probe the deeper policy issues and come up with responses that serve
the progressive cause and advoacte them strongly on behalf of those who
cannot be present in these forums but whose lives are nonetheless
greatly affected by these developments. <br>
<br>
In any case, at least in my view, Internet is not just a market place,
it is a social space for our non-commerical social interactions, it is
a public media and a public sphere, it is a space for exercising
citizenship. Perhaps without discussions on these deeper issues and
essential nature of the Internet and what we take it to be, discussions
on a 'simple act' of a free Internet based service wont go anywhere. <br>
<br>
Parminder <br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:39D05A5FD7C1334DA749CCFCE8538F87136B590A1A@xchg1.uwimona.edu.jm"
type="cite">
<pre wrap="">
Innovation tumbles over innovation, that's the law.
Carlton
-----Original Message-----
From: Ginger Paque [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:gpaque@gmail.com">mailto:gpaque@gmail.com</a>]
Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 7:37 AM
To: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:governance@lists.cpsr.org">governance@lists.cpsr.org</a>; Ian Peter
Subject: Re: [governance] Net neutrality on mobiles
Ian and Parminder,
This is an interesting point for me, but I wonder where the line is
between advertising and other issues, like 'free benefits' which David
mentions. For instance, when text messaging was first available in
Venezuela, it was free. It was free for long enough to get everyone
hooked on it. Then they started charging for it.
It is difficult for me to see this as a NN issue since it sounds more
like a 'free trial', or a 'package deal' that attracts customers. My
serious issues with NN are lack of transparency, not marketing.
Where do you see this 'line'?
I think this is a good time to discuss NN so that we can be more
productive in Vilnius.
Best, Ginger
On 8/7/2010 11:23 PM, Ian Peter wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Hi Parminder,
Unfortunately Australia has already jumped ship on this too. It is common
practice for ISPs here (who have volume charging regimes) to create free
zones of their partner sites which do not attract volume charges and/or
traffic shaping when people exceed download limits. Nobody here seems to
want to pick this up as an issue. To me, this is a distortion of a free
market and an open Internet at the same time and should be attracting a lot
more attention.
The mobile world, as you mention, brings with it other distortions and
potential distortions (eg built in apps and interfaces)
I agree - we should discuss.
Ian Peter
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">From: parminder<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:parminder@itforchange.net"><parminder@itforchange.net></a>
Reply-To:<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:governance@lists.cpsr.org"><governance@lists.cpsr.org></a>, parminder<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:parminder@itforchange.net"><parminder@itforchange.net></a>
Date: Sun, 08 Aug 2010 08:51:02 +0530
To:<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:governance@lists.cpsr.org"><governance@lists.cpsr.org></a>,<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ciresearchers@vancouvercommunity.net"><ciresearchers@vancouvercommunity.net></a>
Subject: [governance] Net neutrality on mobiles
Hi All
The biggest mobile operator in India, Airtel, is providing Facebook free
of data download charges in India (apparently, only for 2 months). I
understand this is happening in other countries too; i read about
something similar in Russia.
I consider this as an outright violation of net neutrality (NN).
Since there are existing codes of conduct on NN in some countries like
Norway and Brazil, I will like to know from those who know and
understand these country specific arrangements well if such a thing as
above will be considered a NN violation under these codes.
If indeed developing countries are to have any chance of being a part of
shaping and governing the future of the Internet, we should start
testing such cases as above with the telecom regulatory authourities,
and if needed with courts and anti-trust bodies.
Parminder
PS: See latest developments on NN debate in the US at
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2010/08/google-verizon-close-to-their">http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2010/08/google-verizon-close-to-their</a>-
own-net-neutrality-deal.ars
It appears that there is some move to treat wireless or mobile based
Internet on a different level vis a vis NN than wired Internet.
As the largest market players - here, Verizon and Google - seek to
arrive at a mutually convenient arrangement, and the only other party
to it is the US gov, itself representing very partisan, and largely
dominant, interests, as far as the global public Internet is concerned,
the real shape of global IG is quite evident. Where does the IGF, and
indeed the IGC come into this may be a question that we need to ponder
upon.
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</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">
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