This is a very interesting discussion thread indeed. <div><br></div><div>I am confused though about some of the examples being offered as those which violate the NN principle.</div><div><br></div><div>Is <a href="http://blog.facebook.com/blog.php?post=391295167130">http://blog.facebook.com/blog.php?post=391295167130</a>, for example, (available in Trinidad & Tobago, the Caribbean, and many other developing countries) and example of a violation of NN?</div>
<div><br></div><div>I am hopeful that someone can comprehensively respond to this and clear up some of the grey about the issue in my mind.</div><div><br></div><div>Thanks,</div><div><br></div><div>Tracy<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">
On Sun, Aug 8, 2010 at 4:09 PM, Ian Peter <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:ian.peter@ianpeter.com">ian.peter@ianpeter.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
David,<br>
<br>
The point you are missing is that when a carrier or ISP creates a non<br>
traffic shaped free zone for users who have exceeded download limits and<br>
includes, say, Google and Facebook and no other search engine or social<br>
networking site - meaning all other sites are subject to much lower speeds -<br>
we have created an uneven playing field where it is difficult for other new<br>
search engines or social networking sites to compete with the incumbents. To<br>
me this is is a serious issue for innovation, free markets, and network<br>
neutrality. .<br>
<br>
I don't see how this is similar to customer loyalty systems or product<br>
buyndling.<br>
<br>
Ian<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
> From: David Goldstein <<a href="mailto:goldstein_david@yahoo.com.au">goldstein_david@yahoo.com.au</a>><br>
> Reply-To: <<a href="mailto:governance@lists.cpsr.org">governance@lists.cpsr.org</a>>, David Goldstein<br>
<div class="im">> <<a href="mailto:goldstein_david@yahoo.com.au">goldstein_david@yahoo.com.au</a>><br>
</div>> Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2010 23:11:39 -0700 (PDT)<br>
> To: <<a href="mailto:governance@lists.cpsr.org">governance@lists.cpsr.org</a>>, Ian Peter <<a href="mailto:ian.peter@ianpeter.com">ian.peter@ianpeter.com</a>>, parminder<br>
<div class="im">> <<a href="mailto:parminder@itforchange.net">parminder@itforchange.net</a>>, <<a href="mailto:ciresearchers@vancouvercommunity.net">ciresearchers@vancouvercommunity.net</a>><br>
</div><div><div></div><div class="h5">> Subject: Re: [governance] Net neutrality on mobiles<br>
><br>
> I can only say this is a bit absurd Ian. Next you'll be going after airlines<br>
> for<br>
> giving their frequent flyers benefits over non-frequent flyers. Or the<br>
> benefits<br>
> Telstra gives for customers who bundle their services.<br>
><br>
> There are many other internet issues that I see every week that are never<br>
> addressed in this group, and you want to focus on this trivial issue?<br>
><br>
> Regards,<br>
> David<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> ----- Original Message ----<br>
> From: Ian Peter <<a href="mailto:ian.peter@ianpeter.com">ian.peter@ianpeter.com</a>><br>
> To: <a href="mailto:governance@lists.cpsr.org">governance@lists.cpsr.org</a>; parminder <<a href="mailto:parminder@itforchange.net">parminder@itforchange.net</a>>;<br>
> <a href="mailto:ciresearchers@vancouvercommunity.net">ciresearchers@vancouvercommunity.net</a><br>
> Sent: Sun, 8 August, 2010 1:53:25 PM<br>
> Subject: Re: [governance] Net neutrality on mobiles<br>
><br>
> Hi Parminder,<br>
><br>
> Unfortunately Australia has already jumped ship on this too. It is common<br>
> practice for ISPs here (who have volume charging regimes) to create free<br>
> zones of their partner sites which do not attract volume charges and/or<br>
> traffic shaping when people exceed download limits. Nobody here seems to<br>
> want to pick this up as an issue. To me, this is a distortion of a free<br>
> market and an open Internet at the same time and should be attracting a lot<br>
> more attention.<br>
><br>
> The mobile world, as you mention, brings with it other distortions and<br>
> potential distortions (eg built in apps and interfaces)<br>
><br>
><br>
> I agree - we should discuss.<br>
><br>
><br>
> Ian Peter<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
>> From: parminder <<a href="mailto:parminder@itforchange.net">parminder@itforchange.net</a>><br>
>> Reply-To: <<a href="mailto:governance@lists.cpsr.org">governance@lists.cpsr.org</a>>, parminder <<a href="mailto:parminder@itforchange.net">parminder@itforchange.net</a>><br>
>> Date: Sun, 08 Aug 2010 08:51:02 +0530<br>
>> To: <<a href="mailto:governance@lists.cpsr.org">governance@lists.cpsr.org</a>>, <<a href="mailto:ciresearchers@vancouvercommunity.net">ciresearchers@vancouvercommunity.net</a>><br>
>> Subject: [governance] Net neutrality on mobiles<br>
>><br>
>> Hi All<br>
>><br>
>> The biggest mobile operator in India, Airtel, is providing Facebook free<br>
>> of data download charges in India (apparently, only for 2 months). I<br>
>> understand this is happening in other countries too; i read about<br>
>> something similar in Russia.<br>
>><br>
>> I consider this as an outright violation of net neutrality (NN).<br>
>><br>
>> Since there are existing codes of conduct on NN in some countries like<br>
>> Norway and Brazil, I will like to know from those who know and<br>
>> understand these country specific arrangements well if such a thing as<br>
>> above will be considered a NN violation under these codes.<br>
>><br>
>> If indeed developing countries are to have any chance of being a part of<br>
>> shaping and governing the future of the Internet, we should start<br>
>> testing such cases as above with the telecom regulatory authourities,<br>
>> and if needed with courts and anti-trust bodies.<br>
>><br>
>> Parminder<br>
>><br>
>> PS: See latest developments on NN debate in the US at<br>
>><br>
>><br>
<a href="http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2010/08/google-verizon-close-to-their" target="_blank">http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2010/08/google-verizon-close-to-their</a>>><br>
-<br>
>> own-net-neutrality-deal.ars<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> It appears that there is some move to treat wireless or mobile based<br>
>> Internet on a different level vis a vis NN than wired Internet.<br>
>><br>
>> As the largest market players - here, Verizon and Google - seek to<br>
>> arrive at a mutually convenient arrangement, and the only other party<br>
>> to it is the US gov, itself representing very partisan, and largely<br>
>> dominant, interests, as far as the global public Internet is concerned,<br>
>> the real shape of global IG is quite evident. Where does the IGF, and<br>
>> indeed the IGC come into this may be a question that we need to ponder<br>
>> upon.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
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</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>