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<font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">It is interesting that this
has become a discussion between a democratic system and a new
governance form which is being called as a multistakeholder system, in
contrast to democratic system. I think we should do a discussion on
this list and resolve this issue in some form if possible. I consider
adherence to ideals, principles and practices of democracy as
absolutely non-negotiable. And I have less hesitation that others here
to say that I am very sure that I think that is what progressive civil
society and IGC should clearly adopt and proclaim. <br>
<br>
Is multistakeholderism a form of 'deepening democracy' and thus builds
upon and works with, even within, democratic governance systems, or is
it a new form of governance different from democratic governance? <br>
<br>
I can explain what i mean with democratic governance, though there is
lots of literature on it, but can someone explain to me what is this
alternative of multistakeholder governance - what are its ideals and
ideology, its principles, and its practices. I always suspected that
some of this discourse and practice of multistakeholder governance
system is going dramatically away from democratic governance system,
but now this discussion is more into the open it would be good to
follow up on it. Parminder <br>
</font><br>
Ian Peter wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:C75F73E6.9583%25ian.peter@ianpeter.com"
type="cite">
<pre wrap="">
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">From: Avri Doria <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:avri@psg.com"><avri@psg.com></a>
Reply-To: <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:governance@lists.cpsr.org"><governance@lists.cpsr.org></a>, Avri Doria <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:avri@psg.com"><avri@psg.com></a>
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2009 16:31:18 -0500
To: IGC <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:governance@lists.cpsr.org"><governance@lists.cpsr.org></a>
Subject: Re: [governance] AW: [tt-group] FW: GAID
Hi,
I personally would not presume to say what we, as civil society, should be
supporting.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->
NO - and my opinions below are not what I think civil society should adopt,
just my perspective
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">I tend to toward multistakeholder systems where each stakeholder group figures
their own ways, ie. their choice from various democratic or other forms, of
picking their representatives.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->
Not for me - Ive had enough of dictatorships, meritocracies, feudalism,
nation states, and other unrepresentative structures. Some sort of
representative model is a baseline for me, and unfortunately in technical
community and nation states in particular we don't always see these.
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">As for what the nation states have foisted on us in the name of democracy, i
have grown quite disillusioned with it as I have not seen an election yet that
has not been tampered with and/or distorted in multiple ways. i strongly
believe that direct democracy works at the local level but that it does not
scale to the global level, and i believe that bottom-up representation can
grow within the stakeholder model from the most local level up in some varying
but scalable way.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->
Lets face it, if planet earth had a democratic structure its governance
would be entirely different. For a start, equal size electorates instead of
nation states would see global politics being conducted entirely
differently. For a start, the India and China votes would dominate globally
because of their population sizes. And although India in particular can sit
very comfortably with huge internal disparities between rich and poor, I
don't think the huge current global differences between rich and poor
nations would continue without some improvements. Nation states are a
failure on many levels, climate change talks being the latest example, and
one day we do have to move beyond this. How we do it is the question - and
perhaps multistakeholderism is part of the answer.
Of course we would still have bureacracies, corruption, power grabs, fear,
greed, ad all of that. So it would not create a perfect world, just a
slightly better way of doing things now that we are globally connected.
(well, these few days before the new year are the time for stepping back a
bit and taking new perspectives on things).
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">i do not accept that any form of top down so-called democratic form can really
be democratic, it can pretend and it can lull us into a sense of democratic
security, but it will always let us down and will always serve the people with
money and not the rest of us.
so yes, I am looking for full participatory multistakeholder process.
a.
On 28 Dec 2009, at 14:55, Michael Gurstein wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Avri,
I'm not really sure what you mean by "full participatory multistakeholder
systems" but I would have thought that we, as civil society should be
supporting a full participatory democratic process as the basis for both
national and global policy development.
I have very real concerns about the corporatist outcomes and forms that
"multistakeholder systems" seem to result in--a close look for example, at
classic multistakeholder systems like the IOC/Olympics structures don't give
one a lot of confidence in the broader benefits that are achieved as a result
of these processes. (The narrower benefits realized by the various
stakeholder beneficiaries and elites are rather easier to identify.)
Mike
(about to become a temporary refugee from the Vancouver Winter OlympicsŠ
-----Original Message-----
From: Avri Doria [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:avri@psg.com">mailto:avri@psg.com</a>]
Sent: Monday, December 28, 2009 9:09 AM
To: IGC
Subject: Re: [governance] AW: [tt-group] FW: GAID
On 28 Dec 2009, at 11:29, Parminder wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Do we basically lack belief in global policies (polity) of any kind or
just in global policies made exclusively by intergovernmental forums
without due participation by civil society in the spirit of what has
come to be known as 'deepening democracy'?
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">
I am not sure that we, in the sense of we the IGC, have a belief.
Personally, i believe that the only valid global policies would come from
full participatory multistakeholder systems. while it may not always be the
case, the national state still fulfills a relevant function, but in my
personal opinion it is one of several equal partners in any debate.
So as long as we, in the sense of the IGC, are supporting the creation of a
well formed multistakeholder regime, we have something I believe in. in my
life i work for (either in a volunteer sense or a professional sense) two
institutions that are working toward a multistakeholder future. neither has
achieved that fully yet - each has a dominant force, in one the nations
states and in the other the private sector, but both are, in my opinion on
the right track an represent as far as we can get at this point.
a.
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<pre wrap=""><!---->
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