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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Just
a quick intervention…<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>The
Internet Rights and Principles coalition is starting to think in terms of:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><span
style='mso-list:Ignore'>(a)<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>What
do our existing fundamental human rights mean in the context of the internet?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><span
style='mso-list:Ignore'>(b)<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>What
do we need to do to ensure that the internet supports (rather than undermines)
these rights?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Issues
of open networks, interoperability, consumer choice, inclusive participation in
governance etc fall into the second category, which we’re working to
define in terms of policy principles to implement human rights on the internet…”implementation
principles”.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>All
the best,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Lisa<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Meryem Marzouki
[mailto:meryem@marzouki.info] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> 27 November 2009 13:23<br>
<b>To:</b> governance@lists.cpsr.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: Extending Rights to the Internet: (Was RE: [governance]
Example<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>Parminder,<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>I fully agree with you that regulation of giant corporates -
not only at global but also at regional and national levesl in countries where
they operate or have subsidiaries - as you formulate it is an issue of foremost
importance and that it is much needed. This issue has in addition to be dealt
with in various fora and framework, not only those related to Internet
governance, as the <span class=apple-style-span><span style='font-size:
9.0pt'>"Proposal for a WTO Agreement on the Supply of Knowledge as
a Global Public Good" example forwarded by Michael shows.</span></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>However, it's not fair to interpret as "inappropriate",
"inconsiderate", and "a smack of insensitivity" an -
ironical, I admit - comment of the very specific and minor consumer issue
as the one brought by Fouad with the example of Amazon Kindle software for PC
not being available in Pakistan. By minor, I mean that it's an
inconvenience, not a violation of human rights nor an obstacle to development,
not even a breach of any consumer rights (consumer rights does not include any
"right to consume").<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>The irony of the comment (comparison with unavailabity of
good Mexican food in Geneva) was simply proportional to the exageration in
calling "authoritarianism" the fact that a given commercial product
is not available in a given country. Words matter, because they express
concepts and there unadequate use might lead to the dilution of these concepts
and the softening of problems that really matter, by equating them to minor
issues. I am sure this was certainly not Fouad's intention, but we should be
cautious on this kind of process: they are intentionally used far too often,
and it's so easy to get traped.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>I lived during the first 25 years of my life in Tunisia, my
other country of culture and citizenship and my country of birth, still have
family there and visit them regularly. You cannot imagine the number of goods
and services that are not available there (not even speaking of affordability),
for various reasons: market not wide enough for some goods or services, too
expensive or not worth to be imported (the Tunisian Dinar is not quoted on the
international currency market) and many other commercial or financial reasons
as already suggested in this discussion. Conversely, there are also Tunisian
goods and services that I cannot find elsewhere in the world. Too bad, but so
what? <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>As far as I'm concerned, I keep the word 'authoritarianism'
for cases when, e.g. a book cannot be found in Tunisia (or is taken by the
police in your luggage when you enter the country) for censorship reasons, not
when I cannot find it easily in any Tunisian bookshop simply because no one
besides me would be interested in reading (and thus buying) it.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Best,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Meryem<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Le 27 nov. 09 à 13:30, Parminder a écrit :<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>Hi All<br>
<br>
Getting late into something which as Carlos said is an interesting
discussion...<br>
<br>
Even if we agree to not apply the terms authoritarianism and human rights here,
the underlying issue is of great importance suggesting urgent need for global
Internet policy making, and developing institutions that are adequate to that
purpose. The issue also suggests that existing global policy institutions do
not cover a good deal of new ground that is opened up with this global
phenomenon of Internet becoming an important part of more and more aspects of
our social lives...<br>
<br>
It is fine to say that this is a consumer rights issue, and i agree with Meryem
that the real issue is that there should be enough alternative software/
devices and interoperability should be ensured... But the point is, who ensures
that. Economically less powerful (developing) countries do not have the muscle
to regulate these unprecedentedly huge global digital companies, and so
they have to simply submit. The developed countries often see strong economic
interest in not disturbing the 'imperialist' designs of these companies which
are almost all based in these countries and bring them a lot of economic benefits
and sustaining advantage (the framework of a new wave of neo-imperialism). <br>
<br>
Who then regulates these giant corporates, whose power now rivals that of many
states? There seem to be a clear and strong tendency, shared by much of civil
society in the developed world - IGC not being immune to it - that Internet
(and its digital ecosystem) should be left unregulated, mostly. At least there
seems to be no urgency to do anything about global Internet policy arena. The
fear of statist control on the Internet has become all that ever counts in any
discussion on global Internet governance/ policy-making. (This has become
almost a red-herring now.) This is problematic for developing countries, and to
the collective interests of the people of these countries, (the right to
development) which are in great danger of losing out as the (non-level) digital
playground is being set out, without due regulation in global public interest.
To get the right global governance institutions and outcomes to address
this vital issue, in my opinion, is what should centrally constitute the
'development agenda in IG'. <br>
<br>
I would consider it very inappropriate, and very inconsiderate, to compare such
real problems that developing counties increasingly face, and will face in
future to an even greater extent, like the non-availability of 'basic' and
enabling software like e-readers, with non-availability of Mexican food
in Geneva... It is even more inappropriate to speak of people of 'certain
persuasion' who in WTO arena oppose certain multinational invasion
of unprotected markets in developing countries, as being a sentiment and
act in opposition to raising the issues of necessary provision of basic
enabling software/ devices on fair and open standard terms to people of developing
countries. Our organization has joined protests on many WTO issues, but do
clearly sympathize with the present issue under consideration. They proceed
from very different logics, but have a convergence in the fact that (1)
global economy (and society) have to regulated in
global public interest , and (2) the interest of developing countries is often
different from that of developed countries. Appropriate global regulatory and
governance systems have to be built which take into account these differentials,
without being formulaic about it. That in my understanding constitutes the
development agenda in global forums. <br>
<br>
Many other examples of commercial digital services have been given - like
paypal etc - denial of which can have a very strong exclusionary
effect of people and groups... Exclusion has to be seen and addressed in its
real, felt forms and not by simplistic comparisons, which smack of
insensitivity. <br>
<br>
Think of Microsoft suddenly refusing to give Windows related services to a
country (I know many would take it as a blessing, but there are strong issue
there still), or Skype not being available in a country which would cut its
residents off many a global tele-meetings (including civil society ones). Or,
Google, especially after it has all of us doing every second online activity on
its platform, cutting off its services to a country... this surely isnt about
Mexican food in Geneva. <br>
<br>
Parminder <br>
<br>
<br>
Michael Gurstein wrote: <o:p></o:p></p>
<pre>Bien sur!<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>M<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>-----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>From: Meryem Marzouki [<a
href="mailto:meryem@marzouki.info">mailto:meryem@marzouki.info</a>] <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2009 10:35 AM<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>To: <a
href="mailto:governance@lists.cpsr.org">governance@lists.cpsr.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Subject: Re: Extending Rights to the Internet: (Was RE: [governance] Example<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>of Corporate Internet Authoritarianism -<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>My English skills probably need improvement:<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>First of all, it's not about participating in *a* debate, but <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>participating in *the democratic debate* (this means, at least in <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>French, full democratic participation).<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Second, it's about the "full exercize of democracy and of one's <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>fundamental rights", which means full democratic participation AND <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>full exercize of fundamental rights". To my knowledge, education/ <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>health/development are part of fundamental rights, aren't they? Meryem<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>Le 26 nov. 09 à 19:03, Michael Gurstein a écrit :<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><pre>But opportunities to "participate in a debate" on something (e.g.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>education/health/development) is rather narrower (and less significant<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>certainly) than an opportunity to actually have an <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>education/health/development, or have I missed something.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>Mike<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>-----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>From: Meryem Marzouki [<a
href="mailto:meryem@marzouki.info">mailto:meryem@marzouki.info</a>]<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2009 9:52 AM<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>To: <a
href="mailto:governance@lists.cpsr.org">governance@lists.cpsr.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Subject: Re: Extending Rights to the Internet: (Was RE:<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>[governance] Example<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>of Corporate Internet Authoritarianism -<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>Hi Mike,<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>I thought this was covered by the "and one's fundamental rights" in<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>the second part of the sentence. By "full exercize of democracy" I<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>meant in this context participation in the democratic debate.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>Le 26 nov. 09 à 18:36, Michael Gurstein a écrit :<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><pre>Thanks Meryem,<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>I agree with your reformulation of my rather awkward initial<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>formulation...<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>My one caveat (and here I'm again demonstrating my lack of<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>familiarity with<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>the "Rights" discourse) is that the statement "access to the<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Internet as a<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>necessary requirement for the full exercize of democracy" seems to<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>me rather<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>too narrow in that one could add/substitute<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>"development"/"health"/"education"/and so on for your terminology of<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>"democracy".<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>Meryem: "I would rather state it differently: access to the<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Internet as a<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>necessary requirement for the full exercize of democracy and one's<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>fundamental right requires that there are accessible tools that<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>allow for or<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>facilitate the use of the Internet."<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>Mike<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>From: Meryem Marzouki [<a
href="mailto:meryem@marzouki.info">mailto:meryem@marzouki.info</a>]<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2009 8:54 AM<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>To: <a
href="mailto:governance@lists.cpsr.org">governance@lists.cpsr.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Subject: Re: [governance] Example of Corporate Internet<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Authoritarianism -<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>Hi all,<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>I agree with Carlos and Bill here. Even beyond this discussion, it's<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>strange how often I've seen recently people - or organizations -<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>speaking of consumer rights as human rights (i.e. fundamental<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>rights). The<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>fact that there exist national, regional, international<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>legislation giving rights to consumers (w.r.t. to goods and services<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>providers) does certainly not mean that this is a fundamental right!<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>Regarding Michael's interpretation that: "If access to the Internet<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>is a necessary requirement for participation in an "Information<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Society" then access to the tools that allow for or facilitate the<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>use of the Internet especially when those tools are linked into some<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>sort of monopolistic position with respect to the use of the Internet<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>should surely fall under that rubric.", I would rather state it<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>differently: access to the Internet as a necessary requirement for<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>the full exercize of democracy and one's fundamental right requires<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>that there are accessible tools that allow for or facilitate the use<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>of the Internet". In other words, the requirement is not to access<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>tools provided in a monopolistic position, but that there should be<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>no monopolies, i.e. alternative tools should exist and be accessible,<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>allowing access to and production of information as well as full<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>participation.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>Going back to Fouad's initial example: the point is not that Amazon's<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Kindle software for PC is not accessible in Pakistan (though it might<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>be an inconvenience for some), but rather that you couldn't read a<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>given book unless using Amazon's Kindle software for PC. Which is not<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>the case, apparently, since I can read the mentioned report (<a
href="http://">http://</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre>report.knightcomm.org/) through other means, e.g. with my browser, on<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>a MacIntosh, connected from Paris.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>Conclusion: it's a pure (and minor, I would say but this is a<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>personal opinion) consumer issue: someone wants to buy a product<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>which is not available in his/her country. See Bill's problem in<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>getting good Mexican food in Geneva, which those who know Bill would<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>qualify as a much more preoccupying problem;))<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>Best,<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Meryem<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>Le 26 nov. 09 à 14:30, Carlos A. Afonso a écrit :<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><pre>Wow, what a strange discussion. Let's contribute to it: how about<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>iTunes<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>or AppleTV only working in developed countries (one cannot purchase<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>media without having a credit card account in the USA or some other<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>developed country)? How about only now Sony introduces the PS2<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>(PS2, an<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>obsolete gadget) in Brazil, and has no plans to introduce the PS3?<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>I think the whole discussion is biased by a focus on being able to<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>consume (superfluous or not) stuff anywhere, whatever the big<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>companies<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>create to make us think we have to have it.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>--c.a.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>McTim wrote:<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><pre>On Thu, Nov 26, 2009 at 11:18 AM, William Drake<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a
href="mailto:william.drake@graduateinstitute.ch"><william.drake@graduateinstitute.ch></a> wrote:<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><pre>Hi Michael,<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>On Nov 25, 2009, at 6:50 PM, Michael Gurstein wrote:<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><pre>I think that Bill's casual dismissal of this issue is not<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>appropriate.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre></blockquote>
<pre>There's a difference between disagreeing with something and being<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>inappropriate.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><pre>The logic here is surely the same as the overall logic of a<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>"Right to the<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Internet" (remembering that I claim no expertise in the domain<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>of discussion<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>around "Rights"...<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre></blockquote>
<pre>Really? "Right to the Internet" is the same as declaring any<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>company that doesn't sell a product in a given country to be<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>"authoritarian."? Sorry, but this strikes me as fuzzy logic, and<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>not the computer science kind.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>It used to be that when a transnational firm entered a developing<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>country's market folks of certain persuasions would decry this as<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>imperialist etc. But now if a firm does not enter a market we<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>can also call them names normally associated with governments<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>that brutalize their populations to retain political power?<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Maybe you should notify all the groups working against WTO<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>agreements etc that they have it backwards and are promoting<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>authoritarianism, whereas what they really should be doing is<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>demanding that every company everywhere be required to sell<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>everything everywhere else.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>Fouad says Amazon is authoritarian because it "dictates who buys<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>or isn't allowed to buy from its website;" presumably, this would<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>apply to other companies and distribution channels as well.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Let's leave aside the many reasons why a company might not serve<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>a given market---costs, level of effective demand, distribution,<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>local partner requirements, regulatory/policy uncertainty/<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>unfavorability, the prospects of fraud (as Carlton notes), etc<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>etc---since I guess normal business considerations don't matter.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>All that does by Fouad's standard is can I buy what I want, and<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>if not, they're equivalent with, say, the Burmese junta.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>I can't get real Mexican food at Geneva grocery stores. I<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>couldn't buy a Coke at the Sharm airport, only Pepsi. I can't<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>watch most US TV shows over the net in Switzerland. I can't see<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>most non-Hollywood US films, e.g. indies, at Geneva movie<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>theaters. But I want these things. So am I a victim of<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>authoritarianism?<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>I'm sorry to hear that Kindle for PC is not currently available<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>in Pakistan. Perhaps it would make sense to actually find out<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>why this is so and see if anything can be done to encourage<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>change? Might be more productive than misplaced sloganeering.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre></blockquote>
<pre>+1<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>I knew if I waited long enough, someone would spend the time to<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>say this!<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>BTW, Fouad, can you not use a proxy service?<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre></blockquote>
<pre>--<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>Carlos A. Afonso<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>CGI.br (<a
href="http://www.cgi.br">www.cgi.br</a>)<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Nupef (<a
href="http://www.nupef.org.br">www.nupef.org.br</a>)<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>====================================<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>new/nuevo/novo e-mail: <a
href="mailto:ca@cafonso.ca">ca@cafonso.ca</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre>====================================<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>____________________________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>You received this message as a subscriber on the list:<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <a
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