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<DIV><SPAN class=934110010-20112009><FONT color=#0000ff size=2 face=Arial>Eric
and all,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=934110010-20112009><FONT color=#0000ff size=2
face=Arial></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=934110010-20112009><FONT color=#0000ff size=2 face=Arial>So far
as I know, I/we are not dealing here with matters of formal Boolean logic but
rather concerns with the significance and impact of Internet Governance in the
real world.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=934110010-20112009><FONT color=#0000ff size=2
face=Arial></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=934110010-20112009><FONT color=#0000ff size=2 face=Arial>My
question was (and remains) whether the matters under discussion were of
significance to the roughly 5.5 billion without current Internet access in the
real world and not whether the issues themselves were impacted or not by the
numbers of those having Internet access, a subject which I personally consider
to be of no interest whatsoever.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=934110010-20112009><FONT color=#0000ff size=2
face=Arial></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=934110010-20112009><FONT color=#0000ff size=2 face=Arial>Your
arguments and the analysis of your (and my) arguments are to my mind complete
red herrings.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=934110010-20112009><FONT color=#0000ff size=2
face=Arial></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=934110010-20112009><FONT color=#0000ff size=2
face=Arial>MBG</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr lang=en-us class=OutlookMessageHeader align=left><FONT size=2
face=Tahoma>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Eric Dierker
[mailto:cogitoergosum@sbcglobal.net] <BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, November 19,
2009 11:06 PM<BR><B>To:</B> governance@lists.cpsr.org; linda misek-falkoff;
Michael Gurstein<BR><B>Cc:</B> l.d. misek-falkoff;
respectful.interfaces@gmail.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [governance] FW:
Internet Users Globally<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
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<DIV>I believe and always have that saying things in a couple of
different ways or languages or within differing social or cultural
logics is most helpful. Your questions asks for a fair diagram of my
antithesis in a straightforward manner. Fair enough.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>1. Does the percentage of actual users in a given set have a
significant impact on the issues presented? Mr. Gurstein makes that
connection.</DIV>
<DIV>2. My antithesis to the positive belief of Mr. Gurstein is that it
does not matter how many users there are with regard to issues
presented.</DIV>
<DIV>3. My conclusion is that the percentage of users within any
jurisdiction did not in any way influence the issues addressed most
recently.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>It is my observation that although not representative either by
vote or election or life position, the members here and in general
engaged in Internet Governance in fact do address the issues of the
users and those effected and affected by the Internet. This suitable
cadre of individuals in fact can see the large picture of protecting
rights of non users as well as users and does in fact address those
concerns.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>On a more appropriate observation -- I try very hard to
remain as ignorant and ill informed as I can so that I can adequately
represent others like me.<BR><BR>--- On <B>Thu, 11/19/09, linda
misek-falkoff <I><ldmisekfalkoff@gmail.com></I></B>
wrote:<BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px"><BR>From:
linda misek-falkoff <ldmisekfalkoff@gmail.com><BR>Subject: Re:
[governance] FW: Internet Users Globally<BR>To:
governance@lists.cpsr.org, "Michael Gurstein"
<gurstein@gmail.com><BR>Cc: "Eric Dierker"
<cogitoergosum@sbcglobal.net>, "l.d. misek-falkoff"
<ldmisekfalkoff@gmail.com>,
respectful.interfaces@gmail.com<BR>Date: Thursday, November 19, 2009,
7:55 PM<BR><BR>
<DIV id=yiv1726871957>
<DIV>Hi Michael, I was in my post, above, also delving for a
minimalist description of the different approaches to topic
here; so if you can clarify or wish to, in response to my post
(by choice of course, and no need to explicitly use <EM>thesis,
antithesis, synthesis</EM> if not seeming apt) - thanks. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>(I wouldn't ask Eric's artistic and exciting style and content to
change a whit, or his wit to subside. But all of you here can
probably parse out the points of view for initiates upon this request;
would be quite welcome). </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Best wishes, Linda.<BR><BR></DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 2:18 PM, Michael
Gurstein <SPAN dir=ltr><<A
href="http://us.mc839.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=gurstein@gmail.com"
rel=nofollow target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:gurstein@gmail.com">gurstein@gmail.com</A>></SPAN>
wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex"
class=gmail_quote>Eric,<BR><BR>I have no idea what this sentence
could possibly mean from any<BR>perspective--development, social
science, marketing, management--"Direct use<BR>
<DIV class=im>and consumption of a good or service is not any kind
of test as to it's<BR>viability or value to a
society."<BR><BR></DIV>Anyway, since we aren't talking about
syringes or police academies (???) but<BR>rather about access to the
major and fundamental infrastructure of modern<BR>society
--<BR><BR>The unavailability of access is a major impediment to
participation and<BR>development... In my country, Canada, the fact
that roughly 25% of the<BR>population is not accessing the Internet
means that the range of public and<BR>private services that have and
are migrating to the Net are inaccessible for<BR>use by those
individuals leading either to the requirement for duplication<BR>of
services (both manual and electronic) or to the denial of service
(where<BR>the service is available only in electronic
form...<BR><BR>In the Cameroun (with which I'm not familiar) or in
South Africa (with which<BR>I am familiar) lack of access to the Net
means that the 97.1% (the Cameroun)<BR>or the 91.4% (South Africa)
of the population not currently accessing/able<BR>to access the Net
prevents them from having access to the knowledge,<BR>training, and
support resources that are available to those with such<BR>access.
Perhaps most important this means that the huge bulk of
the<BR>population is not sufficiently informatized as to make a
direct contribution<BR>to those activities which will spur local and
national economic and social<BR>development. South Africa for
example, has a significant net shortage of<BR>those with sufficient
skills to occupy available technical positions<BR>necessary to
maintain and extend the Information Society/Information<BR>Economy.
That individuals, communities, local institutions are unable
to<BR>access the Net makes it all that much more difficult to bridge
these gaps,<BR>fill these slots and so on and so on.<BR><BR>All of
which is to give me an opportunity to say once again BTW,
how<BR>disappointed I am that there seems to have been little or no
discussion at<BR>the IGF (although simply observing from afar I may
have missed it) about<BR>issues of concern to the other 5.5 billion
or so not currently accessing the<BR>Net.<BR><BR>MBG<BR>
<DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=h5><BR><BR><BR> On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 11:08 AM,
Eric Dierker<BR><<A
href="http://us.mc839.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=cogitoergosum@sbcglobal.net"
rel=nofollow target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:cogitoergosum@sbcglobal.net">cogitoergosum@sbcglobal.net</A>>
wrote:<BR><BR><BR>This argument line is specious. Direct use and
consumption of a good or<BR>service is not any kind of test as to
it's viability or value to a society.<BR><BR>Do we say that since
only 2% of the population uses syringe(s) to
inoculate<BR>thousands that the regulation and governance of medical
appliances is not<BR>relevant? Do we say that because only the
supplier uses a telecommunication<BR>device to supply food more
efficiently and less expensive that the<BR>telecommunication device
is not relevant to the eater?<BR>Are police academies not relevant
to the safety of a small child?<BR><BR>In fact the complete opposite
is true. The need for intermediaries and those<BR>skilled is the
only reason to allow all of us pontithicators to have any say<BR>in
governance. The fact that the hunter and gatherer brings home the
food<BR>from the forest does not obsolve or relinquish the right and
duty of the<BR>homemaker to manage his forest and fields. And since
facts and opinions<BR>without study and understanding are more
dangerous than helpful, I tolerate<BR>all of you speaking for the
consumer ;-) You all be careful that I do not<BR>come up with an
instant vaccine against ignorance, lest and whilst you be<BR>out of
a job.<BR><BR><BR>--- On Thu, 11/19/09, Nyangkwe Agien Aaron <<A
href="http://us.mc839.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=nyangkweagien@gmail.com"
rel=nofollow target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:nyangkweagien@gmail.com">nyangkweagien@gmail.com</A>>
wrote:<BR><BR><BR>From: Nyangkwe Agien Aaron <<A
href="http://us.mc839.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=nyangkweagien@gmail.com"
rel=nofollow target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:nyangkweagien@gmail.com">nyangkweagien@gmail.com</A>><BR>Subject:
Re: [governance] FW: Internet Users Globally<BR>To: <A
href="http://us.mc839.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=governance@lists.cpsr.org"
rel=nofollow target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:governance@lists.cpsr.org">governance@lists.cpsr.org</A>,
"Michael Gurstein" <<A
href="http://us.mc839.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=gurstein@gmail.com"
rel=nofollow target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:gurstein@gmail.com">gurstein@gmail.com</A>><BR>Date:
Thursday, November 19, 2009, 10:42 AM<BR><BR><BR><BR>Many thanks
Michael for the revelation.<BR>I can now understand that despite the
availability of an optical fibre<BR>along the cost of my country
Cameroun about 97.1% of my fellow country<BR>men and women do not
use internet. Astonishing is the finding that<BR>only 86.56
Senegalese do not have access to Internet.<BR>And when you look at
the per capita income of both countries!!!<BR><BR>Internet bandwith
capacity in my office is here in Douala is
256/64<BR><BR>Aaon<BR><BR>On 11/18/09, Michael Gurstein <<A
href="http://us.mc839.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=gurstein@gmail.com"
rel=nofollow target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:gurstein@gmail.com">gurstein@gmail.com</A>>
wrote:<BR>><BR>>> For a very revealing application
concerning Internet users by country go<BR></DIV></DIV>>> to
the<BR>
<DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=h5>>><BR>>> If you go to Google and put
"Internet users in (your country of choice)"<BR>>> into the
search bar you will get the information graphed by
year!<BR>>><BR>> I'm wondering how much of the discussion
at this year's IGF was of<BR>relevance<BR>> to the 99.19% of
Malians who are not currently Internet users
(or<BR>similalry<BR>> for 99.16% of Chadians, 89.49% of
Bolivians, 92.8% of Indians, 98.18% of<BR>> Papua New Guineans
etc.etc.<BR>><BR>>> MBG<BR>><BR><BR><BR>--<BR>Aaron
Agien Nyangkwe<BR>Journalist-OutCome Mapper<BR>Special Assistant The
President<BR>ASAFE<BR>P.O.Box 5213<BR>Douala-Cameroon<BR><BR>Tel.
237 3337 55 31, 3337 50 22<BR>Fax. 237 3342 29
70<BR>____________________________________________________________<BR>You
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