<html><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">Hello Erik<div><br><div>You are correct: I apologize for not being more diplomatic in my subject header. At the time earlier today I was being blitzed by inaccuracies about what happened and what we were purportedly saying that were being attributed to Mr. Kummer. Clearly, an IGF spin was being spun that was not correct and I felt this was not appropriate at all for this to be going on.</div><div><br></div><div>As far as I am concerned, the incident is history. The different views of what happened are out there and people can draw the conclusions they want to draw. </div><div><br></div><div>I just want to say that I made a mistake posting Monika's query to the list like this. That was not necessary, so apologies to Monika.</div><div><br></div><div>Best wishes everyone and good luck with the rest of the IGF.</div><div><br></div><div>Ron</div><div><br></div><div><div><div><div>On 16-Nov-09, at 9:43 PM, Eric Dierker wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0"><tbody><tr><td valign="top" style="font: inherit;"><div>You would do well and somehow politically "apologize" or at least retract and rephrase a subject line that calls another a liar. I do believe it hurts your cause and a re-organization of words could be a great tool to draw even more proper attention to your agenda.</div> <div> </div> <div>It is hard to be sympathetic and lend support to a person who causes hurt to another -- no matter the truth.<br><br>--- On <b>Mon, 11/16/09, Ronald Deibert <i><<a href="mailto:r.deibert@utoronto.ca">r.deibert@utoronto.ca</a>></i></b> wrote:<br></div> <blockquote style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid"><br>From: Ronald Deibert <<a href="mailto:r.deibert@utoronto.ca">r.deibert@utoronto.ca</a>><br>Subject: [governance] Markus Kummer Spreading Falsehood<br>To: <a href="mailto:governance@lists.cpsr.org">governance@lists.cpsr.org</a><br>Date: Monday, November 16, 2009, 3:11 PM<br><br> <div id="yiv1112226460">Hi Governance list. <div><br> <div>Below is typical of what I'm receiving from reporters. It is hard to keep up now with the IGF spin being put on the event. So I think I'll just back off now and resign to whatever happens. Hope the truth wins out, but it looks as though Markus Kummer is intent on spreading falsehoods.</div> <div><br></div> <div>It is contrary to what I've said from the beginning, contrary to what I've posted on my blog and contrary to what I posted on this very list this morning, as well as posting on the comment section of Boing Boing (for what that is worth). </div> <div><br></div> <div>I really wish Markus Kummer would stop spreading falsehoods about what I have or have not said -- and what did or did not happen at the event. He was not even there. Many on this list were though and are now re-telling what they witnessed themselves. (My facts are re-pasted again after the reporter's query).</div> <div><br></div> <div><br></div> <div><br></div> <div>Hi,<br><br>i have reported on the "incident" at he IGF for heise online in one of my<br>IGF stories. Now I get a completely different stories from Markus Kummer and<br>want to follow up with you asking:<br><br>1. Kummer says it is a rule that no posters would be placed outside of<br>meeting rooms, this was the rule. You said UN officials pointed to request<br>from China. So what do you say to Kummers reaction?<br>2. Kummer said that UN oficials did not take the poster down, and by saying<br>so you created a false impression, that could even be said to be<br>manipulative. How would you react?<br><br>best,<br><br>Monika<br><br><br>Monika Ermert<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="WHITE-SPACE: pre"> </span><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="WHITE-SPACE: pre"></span><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="WHITE-SPACE: pre"></span>eLance Journalist<br><a href="http://us.mc807.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=monika@ermert.info" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:monika@ermert.info">monika@ermert.info</a><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="WHITE-SPACE: pre"> </span><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="WHITE-SPACE: pre"></span>Skype: m.ermert<br>+49 (0) 173 6617763<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="WHITE-SPACE: pre"> </span><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="WHITE-SPACE: pre"></span>+49 (0) 89 63850014<br>Croissant-Rust-Str. 15<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="WHITE-SPACE: pre"> </span><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="WHITE-SPACE: pre"></span>81243 München</div> <div><br></div> <div>1. We were told that the banner had to be removed because of the reference to China. This was repeated on several occasions, in front of about two dozen witnesses and officials, including the UN Special Rapporteur For Human Rights, who asked that I send in a formal letter of complaint.<br><br>2. Earlier, the same officials asked us to stop circulating a small invite to the event because it contained a mention of Tibet. They even underlined it in showing it to me. Because the event was just about to start, we said that we would not be distributing any more of these invitations so it was a moot point.<br><br>3. We asked repeatedly to see any rules or regulations governing this act. They did not give us any, only referring to the "objections of a member state."<br><br>4. There were in fact many posters and banners in many of the rooms that I attended, including others in our own. The video itself shows us, at one point, taking one of the other posters we have and offering to cover up the original one. They objected to that and told us this banner must be removed.<br><br>On another matter of clarification:<br><br>The UN officials did not throw the banner on the ground. They asked us to remove it and one of our staff placed it on the ground for us to consider what to do. That's where we had the discussion. When we refused to remove it, their security guards bundled it up and took it away.</div> <div><br> <div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="WORD-SPACING: 0px; FONT: 12px Helvetica; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); TEXT-INDENT: 0px; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; orphans: 2; widows: 2"> <div style="WORD-WRAP: break-word"> <div> <div>Ronald J. Deibert</div> <div>Director, The Citizen Lab</div> <div>Munk Centre for International Studies</div> <div>University of Toronto</div> <div><a href="http://us.mc807.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=r.deibert@utoronto.ca" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:r.deibert@utoronto.ca">r.deibert@utoronto.ca</a></div> <div><a href="http://deibert.citizenlab.org/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://deibert.citizenlab.org/</a></div> <div>twitter.com/citizenlab</div></div> <div><br></div></div></span><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"></div><br></div></div></div><br>-----Inline Attachment Follows-----<br><br> <div class="plainMail">____________________________________________________________<br>You received this message as a subscriber on the list:<br> <a href="http://us.mc807.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=governance@lists.cpsr.org" ymailto="mailto:governance@lists.cpsr.org">governance@lists.cpsr.org</a><br>To be removed from the list, send any message to:<br> <a href="http://us.mc807.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=governance-unsubscribe@lists.cpsr.org" ymailto="mailto:governance-unsubscribe@lists.cpsr.org">governance-unsubscribe@lists.cpsr.org</a><br><br>For all list information and functions, see:<br> <a href="http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance" target="_blank">http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance</a><br></div></blockquote></td></tr></tbody></table>____________________________________________________________<br>You received this message as a subscriber on the list:<br> <a href="mailto:governance@lists.cpsr.org">governance@lists.cpsr.org</a><br>To be removed from the list, send any message to:<br> <a href="mailto:governance-unsubscribe@lists.cpsr.org">governance-unsubscribe@lists.cpsr.org</a><br><br>For all list information and functions, see:<br> <a href="http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance">http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance</a><br></blockquote></div><br><div apple-content-edited="true"> <span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div><div>Ronald J. Deibert</div><div>Director, The Citizen Lab</div><div>Munk Centre for International Studies</div><div>University of Toronto</div><div><a href="mailto:r.deibert@utoronto.ca">r.deibert@utoronto.ca</a></div><div><a href="http://deibert.citizenlab.org/">http://deibert.citizenlab.org/</a></div><div>twitter.com/citizenlab</div></div><div><br></div></div></span><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"> </div><br></div></div></div></body></html>