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<P>Linda and all,</P>
<P> </P>
<P> My response interspersed below...<BR><BR><BR></P>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 0px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid">-----Original Message----- <BR>From: linda misek-falkoff <LDMISEKFALKOFF@GMAIL.COM><BR>Sent: Nov 1, 2009 11:09 AM <BR>To: governance@lists.cpsr.org, "Jeffrey A. Williams" <JWKCKID1@IX.NETCOM.COM><BR>Subject: Re: [governance] Federal Judge Says E-mail Not Protected By 4th <BR><BR>
<DIV>Hi Jeffrey,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I am posting before reading the reference materials, blush, because I saw your post on the way going out but wanted to respond to your own observations. But I will read the materials and get back as others likely will with feedback.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Good I will look very forward to reading same.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I was at a Federal trial here last week where it was just about all email as evidence. A wrote, B wrote, A responded, etc... with lots of apparent intent to capture admissions. What happened to sworn affidavits?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Good question. Besides the fact that after the first "Hop" any emain sent to one or more recipients is always of</DIV>
<DIV>questionable accuracy due to many factors which I will not belaybor here in any detail but are likely fairly well</DIV>
<DIV>known or can be easily surmised, seems to me that any email like a standard posted letter should be considered</DIV>
<DIV>private and not admissable.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Used to be email was by definition casual and not binding. Right? Wrong? Neither? Both?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I guess according to this judge, both is the closest answer. But I cannot agree with that</DIV>
<DIV>answer as I indicated below. Perhaps Paul or Eric can chime in here?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Warm regards, LDMF.<BR><BR></DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>On Sat, Oct 31, 2009 at 4:22 PM, Jeffrey A. Williams <SPAN dir=ltr><<A href="mailto:jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com" target=_blank>jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com</A>></SPAN> wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid">All,<BR><BR> As an perhaps important FYI... FWIW this seems to be a rather shocking<BR>rueling even given the narrowness of same as most users use third party<BR>providers and as such their Email is therefore not protected under the<BR>forth amendment in the opinion of this judge. I personally believe<BR>he is mistaken on the grounds that a user of such a service has or<BR>should have a reasonable expectation of PII in the use of their<BR>account. This goes directly to governance concerns and perhaps<BR>others would care to share their opinions???<BR><BR>See:<BR><BR>In the case In re United States, <A href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_W._Mosman" target=_blank>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_W._Mosman</A><BR>Judge Mosman ruled that there is <A href="http://volokh.com/2009/10/28/district-judge-concludes-e-mail-not-protected-by-fourth-amendment/no" target=_blank>http://volokh.com/2009/10/28/district-judge-concludes-e-mail-not-protected-by-fourth-amendment/no</A> constitutional requirement of<BR>notice to the account holder because the Fourth Amendment does not apply<BR>to e-mails under the third-party doctrine. 'When a person uses the Internet,<BR>the user's actions are no longer in his or her physical home; in fact he or<BR>she is not truly acting in private space at all. The user is generally<BR>accessing the Internet with a network account and computer storage owned<BR>by an ISP like Comcast or NetZero. All materials stored online, whether<BR>they are e-mails or remotely stored documents, are physically stored on<BR>servers owned by an ISP. When we send an e-mail or instant message from<BR>the comfort of our own homes to a friend across town the message travels<BR>from our computer to computers owned by a third party, the ISP, before<BR>being delivered to the intended recipient. Thus 'private' information is<BR>actually being held by third-party private companies."" Updated 2:50 GMT<BR>by timothy: Orin Kerr, on whose blog post of yesterday this story was<BR>founded, has issued an <A href="http://volokh.com/2009/10/29/opinion-on-fourth-amendment-and-e-mail/important" target=_blank>http://volokh.com/2009/10/29/opinion-on-fourth-amendment-and-e-mail/important</A> correction. He writes, at the above-linked Volokh Conspiracy, "In the<BR>course of re-reading the opinion to post it, I recognized that I was<BR>misreading a key part of the opinion. As I read it now, Judge Mosman<BR>does not conclude that e-mails are not protected by the Fourth Amendment.<BR>Rather, he assumes for the sake of argument that the e-mails are protected<BR>(see bottom of page 12), but then concludes that the third party context<BR>negates an argument for Fourth Amendment notice to the subscribers."<BR><BR>Regards,<BR><BR>Jeffrey A. Williams<BR>Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 294k members/stakeholders strong!)<BR>"Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" -<BR> Abraham Lincoln<BR><BR>"Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is very<BR>often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt<BR><BR>"If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; liability<BR>depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by<BR>P: i.e., whether B is less than PL."<BR>United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947]<BR>===============================================================<BR>Updated 1/26/04<BR>CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. div. of<BR>Information Network Eng. INEG. INC.<BR>ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail <A href="mailto:jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com" target=_blank>jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com</A><BR>Phone: 214-244-4827<BR><BR>____________________________________________________________<BR>You received this message as a subscriber on the list:<BR> <A href="mailto:governance@lists.cpsr.org" target=_blank>governance@lists.cpsr.org</A><BR>To be removed from the list, send any message to:<BR> <A href="mailto:governance-unsubscribe@lists.cpsr.org" target=_blank>governance-unsubscribe@lists.cpsr.org</A><BR><BR>For all list information and functions, see:<BR> <A href="http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance" target=_blank>http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance</A><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<P><BR><BR clear=all><BR>-- <BR>- - -<BR>With warm regards,<BR>LDMF.<BR>Dr. Linda D. Misek-Falkoff<BR>914 769 3652<BR>law / computing / humanities:<BR>Founder/Director *Respectful Interfaces*;<BR>Member, Board, Officer - Communications Coordination Committee for the U.N.;<BR>World Education Fellowship;<BR>Member Committees on disability, aging, health, values, development;<BR>National Disability Party (NDP); International Disability Caucus;<BR>Persons with Pain Intl.;<BR>ICT multiple decades; <BR>Other affiliations on Request.<BR><BR>n.b.:<BR>- The *Respectful Interfaces* Coda is: "Achieving Dialogue While Cherishing Diversity" (ask about leadership interning).<BR>- Communication, Cooperation and Collaboration are core values of the CCC/UN (Gellermann et al).<BR><BR></P>
<P>Regards,<BR><BR>Jeffrey A. Williams<BR>Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 294k members/stakeholders strong!)<BR>"Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" -<BR> Abraham Lincoln<BR><BR>"Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is very<BR>often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt<BR><BR>"If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; liability<BR>depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by<BR>P: i.e., whether B is less than PL."<BR>United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947]<BR>===============================================================<BR>Updated 1/26/04<BR>CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. div. of<BR>Information Network Eng. INEG. INC.<BR>ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com<BR>Phone: 214-244-4827<BR></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY>