Meryem,<br><br>Thanks for the clarification. Well taken. Your point is therefore more about ICANN not being an "institution", because of its supposed lack of social purpose. <br><br>May I bring two elements to ponder/discuss in that respect :<br>
<br>1) first, the text of ICANN's Articles of Incorporation contain the following words :<br> <br><div style="margin-left: 40px;">3. This Corporation is a <b>nonprofit public benefit corporation</b>
and is not organized for the private gain of any person. It is
organized under the California Nonprofit Public Benefit Corporation
Law for charitable and public purposes. The Corporation is organized,
and will be operated, <b>exclusively for charitable, educational,
and scientific purposes</b> within the meaning of § 501
(c)(3) of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986, as amended (the "Code"),
or the corresponding provision of any future United States tax
code. [ .. ] In furtherance of the foregoing purposes, and in recognition
of the fact that the Internet is an international network of networks,
owned by no single nation, individual or organization, the Corporation
shall, except as limited by Article 5 hereof, <b>pursue the
charitable and public purposes of lessening the burdens of government
and <u>promoting the global public interest</u> in the operational stability
of the Internet </b>by (i) coordinating the assignment of Internet
technical parameters as needed to maintain universal connectivity
on the Internet; (ii) performing and overseeing functions related
to the coordination of the Internet Protocol ("IP")
address space; (iii) performing and overseeing functions related
to the coordination of the Internet domain name system ("DNS"),
including the development of policies for determining the circumstances
under which new top-level domains are added to the DNS root system;
(iv) overseeing operation of the authoritative Internet DNS root
server system; and (v) engaging in any other related lawful activity
in furtherance of items (i) through (iv).</div>
<p style="margin-left: 40px;">4. The Corporation shall operate <b>for the benefit of the Internet
community as a whole</b>, carrying out its activities in conformity
with relevant principles of international law and applicable international
conventions and local law and, to the extent appropriate and consistent
with these Articles and its Bylaws, through open and transparent
processes that enable competition and open entry in Internet-related
markets. To this effect, the Corporation shall cooperate as appropriate
with relevant international organizations.</p><p>Couldn't these words be qualified as defining a social purpose ?</p><p>2) In many respects, the domain name system is a global public resource. <b>Doesn't the management of a global public resource in the global public interest qualify as a social purpose ?</b> Isn't ICANN an attempt at establishing a multi-stakeholder organization/institution/agency managing a global public resource ? <br>
</p><p>If this is the case, why not engage in trying to define its ideal institutional framework ? Different stakeholder groups - and even people on this list - may have different views on what the ideal institutional framework should be for ICANN. And this is not only fine but necessary. But they need to engage in the discussion in order to make it evolve to become fully accountable. <br>
</p><p>The coming year will be an opportunity to develop such a debate. Why is staying out of the discussion helping ICANN evolve in the right way ? There will be opportunities for all actors in the coming months to weigh in, because the discussion on the organization's future will develop. I hope participants on this list will use them. I say it on a personal basis and in my current functions. <br>
</p><p>Best</p><p>Bertrand<br></p><p><br></p><br><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Sep 20, 2009 at 7:09 PM, Meryem Marzouki <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:meryem@marzouki.info">meryem@marzouki.info</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"><div style="">
Bertrand, you intervention in this discussion might also help in case there is a difference in the concept of "institution" in French and in English..<div>My point is not with the global or not global nature of ICANN. It is rather with qualifying it or not as an "institution". </div>
<div>I already acknowledged that it makes global decision, impacting the whole world: not sure it makes it truly global, but sort of. I also acknowledge that, say, a really big multinational firm (whatever its sector of activity: finance, security/military, industry, service..) could be a global entity, in the same sense.</div>
<div>But an institution, at least in my understanding, has something to do with social order. For better or for worse (an institution is not necessarily democratic), but its purpose is social (like in society, not necessarily like in social justice).</div>
<div>I don't think ICANN has any social purpose. Not that it doesn't deal with issues having highly social implications -- it does, but the point is that it has NOT been designed as such. And, to be honest, I don't think there is any reasonable hope to modify it so that its start looking like an institution.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Hope this starts answering your questions, and that this might explain why I think CS (nor governments, BTW) shouldn't *participate* in its processes since, yes, they legitimize it this way, and they make it somewhat look like an institution, when it is not, and wont become, in my opinion.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Best,</div><div>Meryem</div><div><br><div><div>Le 20 sept. 09 à 18:34, Bertrand de La Chapelle a écrit :</div><div><div></div><div class="h5"><br><blockquote type="cite">Dear Meryem,<br><br>Looking at your interesting exchange with Milton regarding the "global" or non global nature of ICANN, I'd like to ask two complementary questions : <br>
- what would be required in your view to make ICANN truly global ? what kind of modification ?<br> - and can such an outcome be obtained without participating in ICANN's processes, (which brings the risk of legitimizing it, if I understand you well) ?<br>
<br>These questions are not jokes. I think you both touch upon very difficult issues that a lot of people are grappling with. I sincerely am interested in practical suggestions. The issue of ICANN's accountability to all stakeholders will be high on the agenda in the post-JPA framework. <br>
<br>Best<br><br>Bertrand<br><br><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"><div><br> <br> <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"> The whole point with ICANN in this discussion is that it is NOT a<br> "global institution".<br>
</blockquote> <br> Not sure what you mean here. If its effects are global and it is institutionalized it is, in my definition, a global institution. And ICANN more or less meets both criteria. I am sure you understand that no global polity will spring perfectly into being.<br>
</blockquote> <br></div> Sure. But my definition is different from yours. I think ICANN is an organization, led and driven by private companies and interests (including multi-nationals), still having to be somewhat accountable to the US gov, but willing to get rid of this. Well, this is quickly written and misses many details and subtleties, but that's to explain why, in my opinion, it doesn't fit any acceptable definition of a global institution. I think your definition is too inclusive here.<div>
<br> <br> <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
rules. Because if you enter it, you back it, whatever the genuineness<br> of your intentions and efforts.<br> </blockquote> <br> Yes, one does have to make choices. If it's a choice between the DNS and IP addresses being taken over by states/IGOs or some modification and evolution of the ICANN/RIR regime I've made my choice.<br>
</blockquote> <br></div> You fall into this again. I've thought we've gone beyond the ICANN vs. ITU debate?<div><div></div><div><br> <br> <br> <br> ____________________________________________________________<br>
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Tel : +33 (0)6 11 88 33 32<br><br>"Le plus beau métier des hommes, c'est d'unir les hommes" Antoine de Saint Exupéry<br>("there is no greater mission for humans than uniting humans")<br>