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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>No, there is no contradiction or paradox
here at all. There is an important distinction between public, state action and
private, voluntary action. In the latter context, you have the freedom to deny
access to things you don’t want – otherwise all other kinds of
freedom are meaningless. E.g., I am a free expression absolutist in a public,
political context, but that doesn’t mean you can come into my living
room, set up a microphone and force me and my family to listen to your views.
Get it?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Of course it depends on what you mean by
“deny” or “prohibit” within its community” below.
If the operators of this Halal web site run around physically attacking people
who don’t use it, then this is a criminal issue not a free expression
issue. But if a “Halal” web site cannot compel anyone to use it,
then I see nothing wrong with them offering a search site for people who want
to conform to whatever restrictions “Halal” means or however this
group interprets it. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>What are YOU suggesting – that we
pass a law to force this search engine to list different sites and invade its
offices and confiscarte its servers to make them offer access to more sites? <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>All communities, all editorial policies,
all websites, by definition, include some things and not others. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>--MM<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><br>
Wouldn't that be a paradox to apply the "right to freedom of
assoication" to a community if it were to deny within its community the
same right to freedom of association to its members? Or deny the freedom of expression
if any of the community's members were to say anything good or positive about
other communities or beliefs? <br>
<br>
I am not jumping into a conclusion that the halal search engine would have such
an attitude. But if an imaginary entity were to establish a web-space by
asserting its right to freedom of association and freedom of expression, and
then influences (if not prohibit) its members the freeedom of association with
any other community with an opposing or different ideology, would you still
consider the right to the freedom-restricting entity's right to freedom valid?<br>
<br>
Thankyou<br>
Sivasubramanian Muthusamy<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 11:48 PM, <st1:PersonName w:st="on">Milton L
Mueller</st1:PersonName> <<a href="mailto:mueller@syr.edu">mueller@syr.edu</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>There are millions of "closed communities"
on the Internet. The right to establish customised and special applications for
your own idiosyncratic community is as inviolable as (indeed, part of) the
right to freedom of association and freedom of expression. </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p><font size=2 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Milton
Mueller<br>
Professor, <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:PlaceName w:st="on">Syracuse</st1:PlaceName>
<st1:PlaceType w:st="on">University</st1:PlaceType> <st1:PlaceType w:st="on">School</st1:PlaceType></st1:place>
of Information Studies<br>
XS4All Professor, <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:PlaceName w:st="on">Delft</st1:PlaceName>
<st1:PlaceType w:st="on">University</st1:PlaceType></st1:place> of Technology<br>
------------------------------<br>
<st1:PersonName w:st="on">Internet Governance Project</st1:PersonName>:<br>
<a href="http://internetgovernance.org/" target="_blank">http://internetgovernance.org</a></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
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<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
Sivasubramanian Muthusamy [mailto:<a href="mailto:isolatedn@gmail.com"
target="_blank">isolatedn@gmail.com</a>] <br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Friday, September 04, 2009
2:08 PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <a
href="mailto:governance@lists.cpsr.org" target="_blank">governance@lists.cpsr.org</a>;
<st1:PersonName w:st="on">Meryem Marzouki</st1:PersonName><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [governance] Halal
Search Engine</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>Hello,<br>
<br>
It is not amusing. This could inspire other religious groups to start Kosher
search engines, satvic search engines ?? Such divisions could create closed
Internet communities. <br>
<br>
Usually, Internet communities are specialized groups that do not restrain or
prohibit the members of the community from being a part of any other community;
religious communities with a restrained attitude could emerge to be communities
that restrain or influence (if not prohibit) its members from being a part of
other communities.<br>
<br>
Sivasubramanian Muthusamy<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 3:32 PM, <st1:PersonName w:st="on">Meryem
Marzouki</st1:PersonName> <<a href="mailto:marzouki@ras.eu.org"
target="_blank">marzouki@ras.eu.org</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div style='word-wrap: break-word'>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Very funny indeed. I'm eagerly waiting for the <a
href="http://www.iamharam.com" target="_blank">www.iamharam.com</a> search
engine (the domain name is still free BTW). <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>But after all, simply a targetted form of blocking: isn't blocking all
about "unethical" websites, whatever the "ethic" reference?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>But what is *really* clever with this is the possibilities
of really well targeted advertisement. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Le 4 sept. 09 à 10:26, Shahzad Ahmad a écrit :<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Dear Colleagues,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Do you know something about this
"HALAL" Search Engine... </span></font><a
href="http://www.iamhalal.com/" target="_blank"><font size=2><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'>www.iamhalal.com</span></font></a><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>It seems that now cyberspace is heading towards religious
divisions also... This search engine only wants to focus Muslim Internet Users.
Couldn't figure out that who is behind it?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>They claim to be blocking ALL "unethical"
websites... I reckon a new interesting form of blocking..isn't it? I
also feel that this search engine wants to develop their business
"using" religion :)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>It is very funny... they have somehow arranged 3 levels of searches
being Haram... Don't know the logic behind it though as how they decided these
levels. Level 3 is the serach at top most level... which they think is
really really haram.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>For example, put "Sex" in the search area, it is
haram at level 3 (BTW how "sex" can be haram ;)). If you search
"Penis", it is at Level 2 of being haram and "Breasts" are
also at level 2 ;))) See for yourself, am not attaching the screen shots :)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Would really love to hear your thoughts on this...
particularly, if someone know that how will it work...and who is behind it?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>best wishes<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Shahzad<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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