Hi all,<div><br></div><div>While I've not read every single line posted in the past couple of weeks, I find myself asking what we seek to achieve with all of this? I also wonder if perhaps, we've not forgotten the 'real' reason this list started off.</div>
<div><br></div><div>I've done a quick look at our recent list activities & wonder if we've not expended much more energy than its necessary by failing to adher to such small details like;</div><div><br></div><div>
1) Give the other party the benefit of doubt</div><div>2) Disagree, discuss & criticise an opinion/idea without the negative bonus of running down the person</div><div>3) State your position but don't assume it <b>must </b>be followed</div>
<div>4) The sum of all is better than its part</div><div><br></div><div>Anyway, I'm sure the work each of us does in our different localities continue but for me, I'm take a break.</div><div><br></div><div>Best,<br>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 9:47 PM, Jeffrey A. Williams <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com">jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
Ian and ll,<br>
<br>
I wish I could trust Gingers judgment and sense of fairness,<br>
but I cannot given her recent name calling of myself and others.<br>
As such Ginger along with a few others have demonstrated by their<br>
own actions and words that their behavior and especially ethical<br>
judgment leaves far too much to be desired accordingly Ian.<br>
<div class="im"><br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
>From: Ian Peter <<a href="mailto:ian.peter@ianpeter.com">ian.peter@ianpeter.com</a>><br>
</div><div class="im">>Sent: Aug 24, 2009 3:37 PM<br>
>To: <a href="mailto:governance@lists.cpsr.org">governance@lists.cpsr.org</a>, Avri Doria <<a href="mailto:avri@psg.com">avri@psg.com</a>><br>
</div><div class="im">>Subject: Re: [governance] Vote on proposed amendment to IGC charter:<br>
><br>
</div><div><div></div><div class="h5">>The list of members compiled after the last election which is being referred<br>
>to includes all previously affirmed members, irrespective of whether they<br>
>voted or not in the last co-ordinator election, plus new members who voted.<br>
>I have checked that this is so. So there are people on the list who are<br>
>members but may not have voted last time. They should all receive a ballot<br>
>paper IMHO (unless they have left the list or are deceased).<br>
><br>
>As Coordinators Ginger and I will have to deal with any individual anomalies<br>
>that arise here and interpret the Charter as best we can. (One possibility I<br>
>can think of is someone who was on the list for more than two months prior<br>
>to the last election, can confirm they are civil society, but did not vote<br>
>so was not added to the list). Anyone in such a position should contact<br>
>Ginger and myself immediately off list and we will make an appropriate<br>
>judgement as regards validity.<br>
><br>
>Ginger and I will also have to interpret whether people still on the list at<br>
>January 29 2009 are still valid members for purposes of a vote. I am<br>
>inclined to suggest that those who are deceased or who have left the list<br>
>are not to be counted.<br>
><br>
>Ginger and I will do the best we can to run this process smoothly, and<br>
>hopefully without too much process discussion. We may have to make some<br>
>judgements as regards validity of votes in accordance with the Charter, and<br>
>we will do so and announce our conclusions to the list with our reasoning.<br>
>Of course anything we do can be the subject of an appeal at the end of the<br>
>process (which is a good protective mechanism!)<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
>(at My understanding of a valid voter would be<br>
><br>
>1. Anyone on the list compiled after last coordinator election (the list at<br>
><a href="http://www.igcaucus.org/node/12/%253Cbr%2520/%253E" target="_blank">http://www.igcaucus.org/node/12/%253Cbr%2520/%253E</a>.)<br>
><br>
>Plus<br>
><br>
>2. Anyone on the previous members list from<br>
><br>
><br>
>On 25/08/09 3:26 AM, "Avri Doria" <<a href="mailto:avri@psg.com">avri@psg.com</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
>> hi,<br>
>><br>
>> My assumption is that everyone who was on the members list at the time<br>
>> of that last election (members who either voted then or who were<br>
>> already members) is a voting member for the amendment since the list<br>
>> is cumulative. It does not say only those who voted, it says anyone on<br>
>> that voters list whic include both pervious members and those who<br>
>> joined by signing the on to the charter in the act of voting.<br>
>><br>
>> what i am not sure about is someone who has quit the list since then.<br>
>> since a basic requirement for membership is being on the list.<br>
>><br>
>> a.<br>
>><br>
>> On 24 Aug 2009, at 12:40, David Souter wrote:<br>
>><br>
>>> Dear Ginger:<br>
>>><br>
>>> Your answer raises a separate question.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Do you mean here that only people who actually voted in the last<br>
>>> coordinator election will be entitled to vote on this amendment, or<br>
>>> that those who were entitled to vote at that time will be entitled<br>
>>> now?<br>
>>><br>
>>> There could be quite a substantial difference.<br>
>>><br>
>>> David Souter<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> ----- Start Original Message -----<br>
>>> Sent: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 11:56:00 -0430<br>
>>> From: Ginger Paque <<a href="mailto:gpaque@gmail.com">gpaque@gmail.com</a>><br>
>>> To: "'<a href="mailto:governance@lists.cpsr.org">governance@lists.cpsr.org</a>'" <<a href="mailto:governance@lists.cpsr.org">governance@lists.cpsr.org</a>><br>
>>> Subject: Re: [governance] Vote on proposed amendment to IGC charter:<br>
>>> requirement<br>
>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Hello Charity and all. I am replying to the list, because several<br>
>>>> people<br>
>>> have had this same question.<br>
>>><br>
>>> The requirement for voting for a proposed amendment to the charter is<br>
>>> different from an election, for instance, of a co-coordinator. The<br>
>>> Charter states that **³The membership requirements for amending the<br>
>>> charter are based on the most currently available voters list. In<br>
>>> amending the charter, everyone who voted in the previous election<br>
>>> will be<br>
>>> deemed a member for amending the charter."** That list is at<br>
>>> <a href="http://www.igcaucus.org/node/12/%253Cbr%2520/%253E" target="_blank">http://www.igcaucus.org/node/12/%253Cbr%2520/%253E</a>.<br>
>>><br>
>>> A "normal" election requires, as you note, that one be a member for at<br>
>>> least two months. As I understand it, in order to take part in a<br>
>>> vote on<br>
>>> a charter amendment, you must have voted in the previous election, in<br>
>>> this case, the last co-coordinator election in December, 2008.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Please correct me if I am wrong.<br>
>>><br>
>>> If anyone has other questions, or would like any clarification, please<br>
>>> post them.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Thanks! Best, Ginger<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> Charity Gamboa wrote:<br>
>>><br>
>>> Hi Ginger,<br>
>>><br>
>>> I joined IGC January 2009. Please correct me if I am wrong if I<br>
>>> assumed that when you are a member for at least 2 months with the IGC<br>
>>> you can vote. It says in the Charter that "Each person who is<br>
>>> subscribed to the list at least two (2) months before the election<br>
>>> will be given a voter account." The list of IGC members was last<br>
>>> updated January 29 but I do not see my name as member of that list.<br>
>>> Does this mean then that I cannot vote? Or basically I am not a<br>
>>> member of IGC because I am not on the list? Will definitely<br>
>>> appreciate any clarifications.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Thanks! :)<br>
>>><br>
>>> Regards,<br>
>>> Charity<br>
>>><br>
>>> On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 5:31 AM, Ginger Paque <<a href="mailto:gpaque@gmail.com">gpaque@gmail.com</a>><br>
>>> wrote:<br>
>>><br>
>>> Dear IGC members,<br>
>>><br>
>>> A proposal has been made for amendment to the IGC charter (please<br>
>>> see full details below and attached).<br>
>>><br>
>>> IGC members should currently be discussing the proposed amendment<br>
>>> on the list in case there are any doubts or opinions they would<br>
>>> like to express.<br>
>>><br>
>>> The Charter states that ³The membership requirements for<br>
>>> amending the charter are based on the most currently available<br>
>>> voters list. In amending the charter, everyone who voted in the<br>
>>> previous election will be deemed a member for amending the<br>
>>> charter." That list is at<br>
>>> <a href="http://www.igcaucus.org/node/12/%253Cbr%2520/%253E" target="_blank">http://www.igcaucus.org/node/12/%253Cbr%2520/%253E</a>.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Since approval of any amendment requires a two-thirds approval,<br>
>>> please be sure to vote, whatever your decision may be. This is a<br>
>>> good way to keep the IGC on track by exercising your right and<br>
>>> obligation to vote.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Each person sent a ballot paper will be asked first to affirm<br>
>>> whether they are a member of civil society. Only civil society<br>
>>> members are entitled to vote. You will be given a choice of<br>
>>> "yes", "no" or "abstain" to show your agreement or non-agreement<br>
>>> with the proposed amendment. If you prefer not to vote, please<br>
>>> use the "abstain" option that allows us to keep you on the<br>
>>> updated membership list as a current member.<br>
>>><br>
>>> The ballot will be a secret ballot. The ballot will be open for<br>
>>> two weeks (until September 15th). An announcement of the results<br>
>>> will be made as soon as possible thereafter. You should expect to<br>
>>> receive a ballot paper before Wednesday next week (September<br>
>>> 2nd), possibly earlier. If you believe you are entitled to vote<br>
>>> and have not received a ballot paper by then please contact me<br>
>>> directly.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Many thanks to Dr. Derrick Cogburn for once again accepting the<br>
>>> task of running this electronic ballot procedure for the IGC.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Regards,<br>
>>><br>
>>> Ginger Paque<br>
>>> for<br>
>>> Ginger Paque and Ian Peter<br>
>>> IGC Co-coordinators<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> To the IGC Caucus and IGC Caucus Coordinators:<br>
>>><br>
>>> According to the IGC Charter, Amendments to the Charter are made<br>
>>> according to the following process:<br>
>>><br>
>>> This charter can be amended at any time as proposed by no fewer<br>
>>> than ten (10) members and as approved by no less than two-thirds<br>
>>> (2/3)<br>
>>> of the members of the IGC. The membership requirements for amending<br>
>>> the charter are based on the most currently available voters list.<br>
>>> In amending the charter, everyone who voted in the previous<br>
>>> election<br>
>>> will be<br>
>>> deemed a member for amending the charter.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Because of the events on the list over the last month or longer,<br>
>>> the<br>
>>> undersigned have decided to propose Posting Rule amendments to the<br>
>>> charter (attached to this email) that will make it less<br>
>>> problematic to<br>
>>> deal with disruptive behavior on the IG Caucus list in the<br>
>>> future. Part<br>
>>> of the problem we are trying to remedy is the fact that the sole<br>
>>> responsibility rests with the coordinators without them having<br>
>>> any clear<br>
>>> guidelines or<br>
>>> assistance.<br>
>>><br>
>>> In proposing these amendments we looked at RFC 3683 "A Practice for<br>
>>> Revoking Posting Rights to IETF Mailing Lists "<br>
>>> <a href="http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc3683.txt" target="_blank">http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc3683.txt</a><br>
>>> RFC 3934 and " Updates to RFC 2418 Regarding the Management<br>
>>> of IETF<br>
>>> Mailing Lists" <a href="http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc3934.txt" target="_blank">http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc3934.txt</a> , as<br>
>>> well as the<br>
>>> rules currently in effect for ICANN's GA List for guidance.<br>
>>><br>
>>> The proposed amendment contains the following elements:<br>
>>><br>
>>> - statement of the purpose of the IGC list<br>
>>> - set of guidelines for decorum on the IGC list and any other IGC<br>
>>> lists that may be created<br>
>>> - description of inappropriate postings for IGC list(s)<br>
>>><br>
>>> We are also proposing that the coordinators can create, if they<br>
>>> desire<br>
>>> to do so, an advisory body to help them in determining when the<br>
>>> posting rules have been infringed. The decision and<br>
>>> responsibility of<br>
>>> when to take action is, however, still left with the coordinators.<br>
>>><br>
>>> If this charter amendment is accepted by a 2/3 vote of the current<br>
>>> members, action for suspension of removal can be initiated in the<br>
>>> following manner:<br>
>>><br>
>>> a. the coordinators decide on their own that action needs to be<br>
>>> taken<br>
>>> b. the advisory group recommends it to coordinators and they agree<br>
>>> that action needs to be taken<br>
>>> c. a group of 20 IGC members publicly petitions the coordinators to<br>
>>> consider action and the coordinators agree actions should be taken<br>
>>><br>
>>> The appeals mechanism remains the same as it is in the current<br>
>>> charter:<br>
>>><br>
>>>> ? Any decision for suspension can be appealed.<br>
>>>> Any decision to remove someone from the list will<br>
>>>> call for an automatic appeal by the appeals team.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Signed by the following members of the IGC as listed on<br>
>>> <a href="http://www.igcaucus.org/" target="_blank">http://www.igcaucus.org/</a><br>
>>><br>
>>> Carlos A.Afonso<br>
>>> Vittorio Bertola<br>
>>> Wilie Curie<br>
>>> Avri Doria (co-author)<br>
>>> Wiliam Drake<br>
>>> Bret Fausett<br>
>>> Robin Gross<br>
>>> Michael Gurstein<br>
>>> Jeanette Hofmann (co-author)<br>
>>> Wolfgang Kleinwächter<br>
>>> Jeremy Malcolm<br>
>>> Lee W. McKnight<br>
>>> Jacqueline A. Morris<br>
>>> Adam Peake<br>
>>> Parminder Singh<br>
>>> David Souter<br>
>>> Christopher Wilkinson<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> ____________________________________________________________<br>
>>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:<br>
>>> <a href="mailto:governance@lists.cpsr.org">governance@lists.cpsr.org</a><br>
>>> To be removed from the list, send any message to:<br>
>>> <a href="mailto:governance-unsubscribe@lists.cpsr.org">governance-unsubscribe@lists.cpsr.org</a><br>
>>><br>
>>> For all list information and functions, see:<br>
>>> <a href="http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance" target="_blank">http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance</a><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> ----- End Original Message -----<br>
>>> ____________________________________________________________<br>
>>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:<br>
>>> <a href="mailto:governance@lists.cpsr.org">governance@lists.cpsr.org</a><br>
>>> To be removed from the list, send any message to:<br>
>>> <a href="mailto:governance-unsubscribe@lists.cpsr.org">governance-unsubscribe@lists.cpsr.org</a><br>
>>><br>
>>> For all list information and functions, see:<br>
>>> <a href="http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance" target="_blank">http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance</a><br>
>>><br>
>><br>
>> ____________________________________________________________<br>
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:<br>
>> <a href="mailto:governance@lists.cpsr.org">governance@lists.cpsr.org</a><br>
>> To be removed from the list, send any message to:<br>
>> <a href="mailto:governance-unsubscribe@lists.cpsr.org">governance-unsubscribe@lists.cpsr.org</a><br>
>><br>
>> For all list information and functions, see:<br>
>> <a href="http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance" target="_blank">http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance</a><br>
><br>
><br>
>____________________________________________________________<br>
>You received this message as a subscriber on the list:<br>
> <a href="mailto:governance@lists.cpsr.org">governance@lists.cpsr.org</a><br>
>To be removed from the list, send any message to:<br>
> <a href="mailto:governance-unsubscribe@lists.cpsr.org">governance-unsubscribe@lists.cpsr.org</a><br>
><br>
>For all list information and functions, see:<br>
> <a href="http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance" target="_blank">http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance</a><br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Jeffrey A. Williams<br>
Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 294k members/stakeholders strong!)<br>
"Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" -<br>
Abraham Lincoln<br>
<br>
"Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is very<br>
often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt<br>
<br>
"If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; liability<br>
depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by<br>
P: i.e., whether B is less than PL."<br>
United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947]<br>
===============================================================<br>
Updated 1/26/04<br>
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</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>Babatope Soremi<br><br>I'm totally sold out to changing my world for good....<br><br><br>Register your Domain: (<a href="http://www.nairahost.com.ng/ngclient/aff.php?aff=007">http://www.nairahost.com.ng/ngclient/aff.php?aff=007</a><br>
<br>You can't give what you don't have........<br>
</div>